Sitting to deliver?

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Sitting to deliver?

Postby Densa44 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:30 pm

The first one of my dogs running in a NAVHDA test,had this experience. When she sat to deliver the bird all the judges laughed. Other dogs stood in front of their handlers and presented the bird. I don't know why there is a difference between the V-dog trainers and the "old retriever " guys but there is.

I still train my dogs to sit beside me to present the bird, on which ever side I point to. I find that it keeps the dog's head in the game and helps her get on the next retrieve without having to move around.

I often hunt with 3 or 4 other hunters and there are often birds down that she didn't see shot, and I know that when she is sitting beside me she is safe from an excited shooter.

Does everyone else have their dogs "present" the bird to them from standing in front?

thx.
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby J D Patrick » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:15 pm

my dog sits to deliver -
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby Willie T » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:16 pm

Sitting at heel unless retrieving multiples. On multiples I am squared up to the second bird as the dog returns with the first. When the dog heels It is lined up on the next bird and I can see that it has the mark, so I am indirectly helping it by squaring up to the fall. I ask for the bird, the dog delivers it, I say it’s name to release the dog to retrieve the next bird.
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby jlw034 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:57 pm

If testing is important to a handler, then I'd say the front presentation generally has less problems in tests. The visual image of a dog sitting and present the bird is a nice image.

For multiple marks, I really like the side sitting presentation. But that requires the handler to anticipate the next line. Also, for some reason the turn the dog has to make either tight to the side of the handler or looping behind the handler, can result in dropped birds.

Lena does a side presentation. Not sure what I'll train for the next dog.
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby Drahthaar1108 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:54 pm

All of my dogs face me and sit on the retrieve , tell them to give, then heal , that keeps them for prancing around with the bird. Forrest
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby Kiger2 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:45 pm

Willie has it right.

I think the NAVDA world just hasn't caught up with good retrieving skills. Im not sure how a dog sitting facing you is any more pleasing to the eye than a side delivery with dog holding bird and focused on the next mark?

If pup is prancing around before delivery you have a different problem. Dog needs some discipline. Same with drop on side delivery. Easy to clean up. Dogs are more prone to messing up when they are behind you. Since they cant see your eyes they think they free to move about the cabin. So don't let them do get behind you. Same thing when they are returning on a retrieve, NEVER take your eyes off them. Judge asks you a question you focus on the dog as you answer. They can tell at hundreds of yards if you are paying attention or not and maybe that mud puddle is more attractive than returning with the bird. Ive seen it happen.

As to anticipating the next line, pup will tell 99.9% of the time which mark he wants next. We generally release them to get the last bird down. But if you watch pup closely, he will at some point before he gets back to you look towards his next mark.Your not anticipating the next line, pup tells what he wants. Unless there's a reason to select for the dog, you square up on the mark he looked at. Send him on his name. You may have to select for hi, say if one birds crippled. Square up to the cripple and since pup is conditioned to sit squared to you, you have him set to get the bird you want, not the one he wants.
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:41 pm

If the dog does a lot of waterfowl, I want them to come in, heel and sit facing the decoy spread. For upland I don't really care but I train the same way. Every dog. EVERY DOG should sit to deliver. I can prevent future mouth problems.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby jlw034 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:36 pm

Kiger2 wrote:Willie has it right.

Im not sure how a dog sitting facing you is any more pleasing to the eye than a side delivery with dog holding bird and focused on the next mark?



Passing the eye test is completely subjective, but to me it looks like the dog is formally presenting the game to the handler. It's easier to get eye contact, which raises the dogs chin and game up. On the heeled retrieve, many dogs tends to 'droop' at the handoff.

Again, subjective on my part.
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby crackerd » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:08 am

jlw034 wrote:
Kiger2 wrote:Willie has it right.

Im not sure how a dog sitting facing you is any more pleasing to the eye than a side delivery with dog holding bird and focused on the next mark?



Passing the eye test is completely subjective, but to me it looks like the dog is formally presenting the game to the handler. It's easier to get eye contact, which raises the dogs chin and game up. On the heeled retrieve, many dogs tends to 'droop' at the handoff.

Again, subjective on my part.


Good observation - belief here is it's a possession thing for V-dogs - and also addresses Kiger2's "focus on the next mark" remark. 'Cause in NAVHDA there ain't no next mark - all singles. Save for that crazy-config double introduced 10 years or so at the Invitational to much protest from handlers (and justified too, given their dogs having to pick up the birds in the order required by the judges) - is it still part of the Invitational?

Densa44 wrote:Does everyone else have their dogs "present" the bird to them from standing in front?


Tempted to be a typical WA and say, "Yeah, whole continents!"

MG
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Re: Sitting to deliver?

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:50 am

Spud is trained to sit and deliver. Here he is delivering a bird from our review of steady to WSF this morning. As he is returning if I give him a hand signal to swing around to my left side and sit at heel he will. Otherwise he will come straight and sit facing me. The swing to the side heel positions signals another retrieve is coming right up, the front delivery is simply nice job buddy. Nice to have options for different situations.

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