Should sound familiar.

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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:08 am

The reason for it is the same reason schools should require vaccines. Because of you don’t, some dumbass is going to find an excuse not to do it, and now we have people dying of measles when the disease was once completely eradicated.

It’s “policy” because humans as a group are stupid, lazy, and when they aren’t one or both of these they look for loopholes.

Rabies vaccines aren’t about the dogs, or your wallet. It’s about a highly effective public health program that WORKS.
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby Doc E » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Rabies vaccines aren’t about the dogs, or your wallet. It’s about a highly effective public health program that WORKS.


And it "works" MUCH longer than what is currently done.

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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby Doc E » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Rabies vaccines aren’t about the dogs, or your wallet. It’s about a highly effective public health program that WORKS.


And it "works" MUCH longer than what is currently done.

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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby flitecontrol » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:02 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:The reason for it is the same reason schools should require vaccines. Because of you don’t, some dumbass is going to find an excuse not to do it, and now we have people dying of measles when the disease was once completely eradicated.

It’s “policy” because humans as a group are stupid, lazy, and when they aren’t one or both of these they look for loopholes.

Rabies vaccines aren’t about the dogs, or your wallet. It’s about a highly effective public health program that WORKS.


I'm finding it difficult to follow your line of reasoning or see where you have provided any evidence to counter what I wrote. Not sure how many times I need to repeat it, but I never questioned the use or value of rabies vaccines; just proved that they are effective for a much longer period than one year. Yet I am required by the state to vaccinate my dog annually.

So who developed the "policy" of one year vaccinations? Was it through ignorance of how long the vaccine is effective, or was it because, as you say, people are stupid and lazy? Regardless of who set the policy, there is no doubt that they were influenced by the pharmaceutical companies and veterinarians, who should be the experts in such matters. Contrary to your statement, for me, it is about my dog. I don't want him to develop rabies because it will kill him, and I certainly don't want a rabid dog or cat to infect anyone or their pets.
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:31 pm

Let’s spin it this way... how many humans are you willing to accept die so you can vaccinate your dog every 5 years, or every 7??
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby Doc E » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:33 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:Let’s spin it this way... how many humans are you willing to accept die so you can vaccinate your dog every 5 years, or every 7??


Sorry, but that is a silly supposition, since there is no evidence that a rabies shot isn't good for at least 5 years....... As far as 7 years, nobody knows, there has not been
a 7 year rabies challenge test that has gone for 7 years.

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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby flitecontrol » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:17 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:Let’s spin it this way... how many humans are you willing to accept die so you can vaccinate your dog every 5 years, or every 7??


Do you read my posts, or have you decided to defend your opinion regardless of what I post? Show me proof that vaccinating a dog every three years isn't sufficient to provide immunity. Maybe it's because you can't that you choose to obfuscate, muddy the water, and put words in other's mouths that they never uttered. That's not helpful. I've provided scientific evidence, and all you've done is mislead, denigrate, spout unsupported opinions and generally show your rear end. Have you ever conceded in a discussion that your position might be wrong? Good grief!
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:53 pm

Why does it piss you off so much that I don’t agree with you?

People forget veterinarians swear an oath to public health and prevention of animal sufferering- NOT protection of animal health. Humans come first, and you don’t f*** around with a disease that causes death 99.99% of the time.
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby orhunter » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:55 pm

The vaccination schedule adopted is based on testing that was concluded after three years. Has nothing to do with how long the vaccinations are good for, only the testing. We’ve been down this road before MissK, why aren’t you getting the message? If we want to see how long the vaccinations are good for, the testing cannot be limited. It should be for as long as it takes to get an accurate assessment.
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby flitecontrol » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:52 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:Why does it piss you off so much that I don’t agree with you?

People forget veterinarians swear an oath to public health and prevention of animal sufferering- NOT protection of animal health. Humans come first, and you don’t f*** around with a disease that causes death 99.99% of the time.


It doesn't piss me off that you don't agree, I'm just baffled that someone whose supposed to be educated (to use their gray matter?) could be so obstinate, obviously wrong, and unable to reason. Since you are unable to deal with facts, or think logically, I'll let it go. No sense spending time reasoning with someone whose incapable of reciprocating.
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby Doc E » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:00 am

Miss un Informed

The "Rabies Challenge" showed that the vaccination was good for at least
5 years. Get up to date or get off the train.

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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:12 pm

Doc E wrote:Miss un Informed

The "Rabies Challenge" showed that the vaccination was good for at least
5 years. Get up to date or get off the train.

.


There has not been a rabies challenge study. There is currently a vet collecting funds for said challenge, but it’s not been done, nor is it likely to ever be done due to ethics and human exposure risk. The ethics of the person collecting those funds is questionable because of those limitations.

Studies have shown titers stay elevated for 5 years, but titers have never been correlated with immunity as they only test humoral immunity and not cell mediated immunity. One would assume titers would then be good enough because cell mediated immunity is just added protection. But we don’t KNOW, and when we are discussing decreasing a protective barrier between humans and a 99.99% deadly disease, public health doesn’t give 2 shits about your assumptions, or the $35 dollars lost on a booster, or the 1 in 100,000 chance your dog will get an immune mediated disease related to said booster.

If you don’t want to spend $35 on a booster then don’t. You can risk public health and the consequences thereof if you think you know better than the immunologists and public health PHDs that helped wrote these policies.

Iowa public health code is stricter than Iowa state law. In Iowa, LEGALLY your dog is only required to be vaccinated for rabies if it runs at large.
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby JONOV » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:31 pm

Doc E and Flitecontrol are missing the point. If they want a change in the protocol then write their lawmakers, the USDA, the AVMA, etc...But to date I haven't seen any comprehensive studies done on a large scale of dogs that indicates immunity on an acceptable scale to change the rules. If you can point me in the direction of a peer reviewed study, I'm all ears.

After a few years, in theory a titer test could be used to ensure continued immunity, but often that's expensive compared to the relatively cheap vaccine, and according to the 2016 Rabies Compendium isn't a guarantee of immunity. I get various titers for work now and again but that's because its often cheaper than the vaccine. I've also seen what a Human Rabies Vaccine costs on a workers comp claim, and I've coordinated rabies titers for human clients as well.

There's only one state AFAIK that requires rabies every one year anymore, and that's Alabama. It is possible that counties have other laws on the books, but that's a local issue. Every other state allows them every three years.

Rabies, is almost invariably, a death sentence. It is not Bordatella and it is not Kennel Cough. And while I sure know if I've been bit by something, I can't say the same for a dog or cat, and would I make the same decisions after a bite of some sort from my dog vs a raccoon?

Look at it from a public health perspective, how the USDA would look at it, etc...and think of the risks and costs involved with even a slightly increased margin of error. Hey, a male as a 0.04% chance of contracting HIV from unprotected vaginal intercourse with an HIV positive partner...But would you take that risk? Then why would you take that risk with your dog? Its rabies, not Kennel Cough or Lepto or Lyme's Disease.
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby flitecontrol » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:46 pm

JONOV wrote:Doc E and Flitecontrol are missing the point. If they want a change in the protocol then write their lawmakers, the USDA, the AVMA, etc...But to date I haven't seen any comprehensive studies done on a large scale of dogs that indicates immunity on an acceptable scale to change the rules. If you can point me in the direction of a peer reviewed study, I'm all ears.


Are you familiar with the Rabies Challenge Fund Study? Not sure if it's peer reviewed, but here's a summary and link:

"Rabies Challenge Fund Update - January 25, 2018

UPDATE from Dr. Ronald Schultz: "Results to date of The Rabies Challenge Fund research study showed protection from live rabies virus challenge five years after the dogs received 2 doses of rabies virus vaccine. Other data are still being collected and analyzed for the 6.5 and 7-year post-vaccination periods."" https://www.rabieschallengefund.org/wha ... on-of-immu

I suspect the reason the above is the only challenge study is because conducting such testing is very expensive.

This is the only paper I found dealing with rabies vaccine efficacy: http://www.ksvdl.org/rabies-laboratory/ ... -info.html
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Re: Should sound familiar.

Postby ryanr » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:15 pm

Doc E wrote:Miss un Informed

The "Rabies Challenge" showed that the vaccination was good for at least
5 years. Get up to date or get off the train.

.


Fish oil will cure it right Doc E? :oops:
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