New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:50 am

can't speak for great numbers of any breed but I currently have two griffs and two pudelpointers. The coat thing is huge - a tight coated PP is far and away a better choice for country with cheat grass, beggars catchweed, cockleburs, etc. A tight coated PP does better in hot weather and IMO just as well or possibly better in cold weather and cold water. A fluffy PP may not be any better though. I hunt 50% waterfowl and 50% upland. Lastly, in my experience of having three Griffs and two PP's, I like the temperament of PP's better - less jumpy and more laid back. Hard to generalize but that's where I am now. Lots of room for argument.
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Andrew51 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:16 pm

Bruce Schwartz wrote:can't speak for great numbers of any breed but I currently have two griffs and two pudelpointers. The coat thing is huge - a tight coated PP is far and away a better choice for country with cheat grass, beggars catchweed, cockleburs, etc. A tight coated PP does better in hot weather and IMO just as well or possibly better in cold weather and cold water. A fluffy PP may not be any better though. I hunt 50% waterfowl and 50% upland. Lastly, in my experience of having three Griffs and two PP's, I like the temperament of PP's better - less jumpy and more laid back. Hard to generalize but that's where I am now. Lots of room for argument.


Thanks for adding another wrinkle to the mix! I had briefly looked at the PP, but my second/third hand research pointed towards the PP being a little more hyper/ aggressive than the WPG. Looks like I should at least re evaluate. How are your dogs around kids?
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby HMR » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:09 pm

Andrew, you can take my advice with a grain of salt since I’m new to the hunting game and the Griff breed. But being new to the game I can tell you. Go to some Navhda training days, meet the people and the different breeds of dogs. That is what I did. The people are friendly and welcoming.

Meet the breeder and their dogs. See the dogs in action and when you find a breeder you like get on their waiting list. I had to wait almost 2 years and I know that my breeder has a never ending waiting list and breeder support is so valuable. My breeder is been nothing but a wealth of knowledge and support which is so highly appreciated especially being new to the breed and the hunting game.

My WPG is 7 months old now, I have a 2 year old and a 5 year old and I couldn’t ask for a better family dog. She is fantastic with my children and I can already see a very special bond developing with my 5 year old and Thistle. In the house she is calm and training has been easy.

Thistle is confident and easy going, but sensitive when it comes to the sound of your voice. I don’t think you could go wrong with a well bred Griff.
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby HMR » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:15 pm

Andrew,

Here are a few great podcast episodes on the Griff
https://thehuntingdogpodcast.libsyn.com ... ch=Griffon
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:24 pm

Andrew51,

Your best move would be to go and observe some dogs while working before landing on a breed.

Include DDs in your research. They are the most consistent breed out there for excellent coat, performance and temperament.
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:06 pm

Andrew51 wrote: How are your dogs around kids?


I think both breeds are wonderful around kids but there are exceptions to the rule. I know of someone who has a pp as a therapy dog and then got another but the dog turned out to be somewhat sharp (as a pup) so got rid of it. Frankly, I've heard more stories about griffs with attitude problems. Orhunter can talk more of that than can I. My experience with both breeds has been uniformly good. Your breeder is the best judge for that trait.

Have you investigated hunting range? Griffs are said to hunt closer than some prefer but for me they're perfect. That varies as well, but my griffs hunt at 80 yards , one of my pp's hunts at 150 and the second loves being 300. 300 is big for what I hunt and I get a little tired of only seeing the dog on the GPS. I live on a farm and all the dogs hang out when we feed stock or pigeons or chickens but the one pp is always off hunting on its own and it can be annoying. If I lived in Kansas 300 yards might be perfect. Again, it's hard to define a normal for any of these generalizations.

I'm glad your dog will be a house pet. None of these breeds should ever have to live in a kennel.

What AG said is true... DD's have a great reputation. It's hard to improve on their beauty too- look at some of AG's videos! I've heard tell that DD's are hard on pet cats (but I've heard that's also a misnomer). Our dogs are house dogs living with two cats and they play together well.
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:07 pm

Trusting an unsupervised DD with a cat is not something I ever recommend. Puppies can be raised with a cat and get along well with that specific cat is the norm you hear quite often. I did it once and they were good buddies, wrestling and playing daily, but I did not trust them to be alone together when I was not around.
Critical to their relationship was that cat was smart enough to always be docile and keep its claws retracted at all times when playing with the dog.

The same dog considered Feral cats vermin and I agreed with him ...
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Highlander » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:27 pm

Since many people commented about the hair length and the overall quality of it among the wire haired breeds, It might be a good idea for Andrew to ask the breeders about that too.

I've heard tell that DD's are hard on pet cats


Well... this could be true and is something to be aware of.
My DL (GLP) pup comes from almost identical breeding system as DDs and... she already chased my neighbor's cat up on the tree and kept barking at the cat like a coonhound. As she was chasing it she also kept barking like a beagle, which also a breeding requirement.
I am not sure what would have happened had she gotten the cat.
After that I keep cautious around and about cats. Her mom is very anti vermin too.
My gf has already got used to the idea she won't have a cat.

I am not saying all DDs and DLs are like that, but there are good numbers of them.
The German system has bred dogs for dispatching vermins (feral cats fall in this category too) as they are problem over there and hunters are encouraged to manage them. Feral cats and racoons are big problem in Northeast.
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Andrew51 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:47 pm

HMR wrote:Andrew,

Here are a few great podcast episodes on the Griff
https://thehuntingdogpodcast.libsyn.com ... ch=Griffon


Thank you very much for your input. I have stumbled across a few of those podcasts, but I'll make sure to check them all out. Thanks again.
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Andrew51 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:50 pm

Highlander wrote:Since many people commented about the hair length and the overall quality of it among the wire haired breeds, It might be a good idea for Andrew to ask the breeders about that too.

I've heard tell that DD's are hard on pet cats


Well... this could be true and is something to be aware of.
My DL (GLP) pup comes from almost identical breeding system as DDs and... she already chased my neighbor's cat up on the tree and kept barking at the cat like a coonhound. As she was chasing it she also kept barking like a beagle, which also a breeding requirement.
I am not sure what would have happened had she gotten the cat.
After that I keep cautious around and about cats. Her mom is very anti vermin too.
My gf has already got used to the idea she won't have a cat.

I am not saying all DDs and DLs are like that, but there are good numbers of them.
The German system has bred dogs for dispatching vermins (feral cats fall in this category too) as they are problem over there and hunters are encouraged to manage them. Feral cats and racoons are big problem in Northeast.


Thankfully I, nor my wife, have any interest in cats. I actually just claim I'm allergic to them to easily solve the problem. One thing I did not mention is that we have an 11 year old yorkie. Basically, across between a cat and a squirrel. She has tolerated larger dogs fine generally ... actually got a long great with one of my parents labs... but I worry if a more fur driven breed would be problematic. Certainly, there will be an introduction/adjustment period.
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:04 pm

I do not think you would experience any appreciable difference between introducing a WPG, PP or DD puppy to your Yorkie.

You are also likely to see fur drive in many WPG or PP puppies you might acquire.

DDs are highly intelligent and as such very trainable. You can dissuade them from fur through training if that is your preference, but you will have to do it.

Here is my Spud dog a few days ago.

I was testing out some coyote pup distress and adult howls on a electronic caller in the basement moments before this video. Apparently I had the volume up a little too loud. I learned what I was seeking to learn about the caller programs and shut the caller off, walked up stairs and let the dogs out in the front yard. Spud and I saw a coyote trot across the frozen pond and when Spud started to bolt I said Whoa, woke up my phone and filmed as a second coyote trotted across the pond where the first went. Highly intelligent and very trainable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCCOs5fKuEI
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Andrew51 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:47 pm

AverageGuy wrote:I do not think you would experience any appreciable difference between introducing a WPG, PP or DD puppy to your Yorkie.

You are also likely to see fur drive in many WPG or PP puppies you might acquire.

DDs are highly intelligent and as such very trainable. You can dissuade them from fur through training if that is your preference, but you will have to do it.

Here is my Spud dog a few days ago.

I was testing out some coyote pup distress and adult howls on a electronic caller in the basement moments before this video. Apparently I had the volume up a little too loud. I learned what I was seeking to learn about the caller programs and shut the caller off, walked up stairs and let the dogs out in the front yard. Spud and I saw a coyote trot across the frozen pond and when Spud started to bolt I said Whoa, woke up my phone and filmed as a second coyote trotted across the pond where the first went. Highly intelligent and very trainable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCCOs5fKuEI


Certainly impressive... Based on many of these responses and discussion... I thought I had things figured out, but I have some more figuring left to do I think.
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Dmog » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:22 am

You’ll be fine with the VHD with the Little dog if the little dog is with the pup. My wife’s little princess is the Alpha of the 2 VHD’s
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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:33 pm

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Re: New Guy - Interested in WPG's... I think

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:26 pm

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These dogs are smart and know the difference.

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