NH Problems is our Problems

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NH Problems is our Problems

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:16 am

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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby orhunter » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:49 am

How do people like this get elected? Can't believe something like this can gain any traction.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:00 pm

orhunter wrote:How do people like this get elected? Can't believe something like this can gain any traction.


You would be very disappointed to read what even some fellow Sportsman say and support.

There is a very active guy on the GunDogForum who posts anyone keeping their dog outside is cruel and wrong to do so, (he also commonly rails against posting any dead bird photos on hunting forums, also says there is a coverup involving Officers at the highest levels in NAVHDA around one of the most successful GSP lines in the country throwing bad bites, also says wild Rooster pheasants are the dumbest bird on the planet, ... )
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby orhunter » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Kent:

I guess that explains how "people like this get elected." I can pretty much guess how popular he is. Some people will say and do most anything to call attention to themselves.

I've tried joining, Gun Dog Forum, twice in the past three weeks and have gotten no response. What's the key? Maybe the security too tight on my computer? I've got a pretty good spam filter.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:05 pm

Orhunter, PM sent.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:19 pm

Sportsmen are under very heavy attack right now. First, there's the new animal cruelty law the president signed. Where do you draw the line between animal cruelty and training? How about using pigeons for training? Shooting birds for training? A law like this leads us to a very slippery slope.

Then there' s the bill in Virginia to confiscate assault weapons. 75 counties have all ready declared themselves "Sanctuary Counties" and their police will not enforce the bill. The governor is threatening to use the National Guard to enforce the bill, fire all the police officers who refuse to enforce the bill and cut funding to the counties.

The NH bill is funny. When I was a trainer, ALL dogs were kenneled outside in insulated, flat roof dog houses with wind baffles. They were elevated. In a blizzard, the labs would curl up on the flat roofs and sleep through the storm. In the morning there'd be 20 white lumps on tops of the houses until they woke and shook off. We won't even talk about huskies. These politicians, mostly democrats are clueless jerks. To be more precise, they are clueless, uninformed, dangerous jerks. 2020 is coming. Get rid of them all.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:17 am

Yes, That Federal "Animal Cruelty" law is sponsored by Anti-hunting Animal Rights folks and is very problematic for Hunters and even more so for Trappers.

My Dogs come inside for hours daily. When we are not in the house they are in secure outdoor kennels and they sleep there every night with insulated wind proof swinging door dog houses set inside my Machine Shed. They are more adapted to heat in the summer and cold in the winter. The changes in their coats is very obvious between the seasons. I am not in need of any government oversight or involvement in my animal husbandry.

There is a legitimate problem to be solved however.

My driving route to one of the nearby public areas I hunt, exercise and train on takes me past such a problem. In the front yard sit two completely inadequate dog houses. Huge in size such that no dog could trap enough body heat to stay warm, no floor, no nest box, no closure in the front opening. There are two circles of mud around each them where the German Shepard dogs are chained. I often see no water bowl within reach of either dog. It is a horrible existence for these animals and I cringe to see it.

These are the situations that give rise to legislation such as this.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:39 am

There are also people that don't understand what they see. I do agree, lots of mistreated animals. Still, a slippery slope. Take hounds and bird dogs. I'm guessing that most guys that run packs of hounds keep them in barrel dog houses chained out. Looks cruel but isn't. Same with dog teams. Most huskies are in barrels on chains, not kennels. A dog can take a lot of cold. They're dog's. Like I said, the Labs would curl up in a ball on TOP of their houses. The outside dog's are the visible dog's. However an ankle biter continually harassed by children is as mistreated as those dog's you saw.

I think it's an impossible situation. We simply cannot use our human values to judge how a dog is treated. What we may see as cruel, the dog may enjoy. All wild canines live without houses. A dog that is acclimated to the cold can do the same. Those German Shepherds can easily adopt to the cold, house or not.

I do admit though, I hate seeing dog's on chains even though I know it doesn't hurt them a bit.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:05 am

Inadequate dog houses are unmistakeable when you see them. Barrels with the K-9 dog door closures on the end are very suitable. These were not those.

Dogs on chains living in a circle of mud is not a housing method I will ever use.

I had hounds before I had bird dogs and even 40 years ago I saw the superiority of kennels vs chains. These dogs I mentioned have never been off of those chains any time I drove past. Hounds are tough and unfortunately they suffer for it in many cases. A Farmer I know had a coon hound he was really proud of and enjoyed. The Dog lived chained to one these same too large, no floor, no nest box, no swinging door excuses for a dog house. The dog died during a very difficult stretch of winter and the guy lamented he did not know what got him. I held my tongue but I sure knew - it was Exposure.

I have seen many a coyote, fox and coon seek shelter deep in a dozer pile, an undercut bank, an underground den, buried in cattails ... Wild animals know how, where and when to seek shelter. A dog on a chain has no other option other than what is afforded it.

I recall seeing how my Dad cared for my eventually 17 year old German Shepard after I moved out of my childhood home in my late teens. Kids being taught the right vs the wrong for animal husbandry is the solution vs legislation such as this. Common sense still works it is just in short supply.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:52 pm

The cure for this are legislators with brains and there certainly aren't many around. None with common sense.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby ryanr » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:13 pm

So much for the state's Live Free or Die motto I guess. I certainly hope this gets defeated. More and more I think there are two New Hampshires (Vermont's been the same way.)

PA recently enacted one of these types of laws, it mainly has to do with housing and tethering a dog outside in very cold or very hot temperatures and there is an exception for sporting dogs engaged in hunting, etc (but not for simply being in a back yard or tethered.) It's an example of good intentions poorly executed without much foresight.

I happen to hate seeing dogs kept outside in poor housing (some people aren't even smart enough to turn their crappy dog house out of the prevailing wind or keep it from facing North) and find the people that do it to be lowly souls. If you're going to keep a dog outside it should have a weather-tight house with regularly changed bedding. If you can't offer a dog that you shouldn't own one.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:13 pm

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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby JONOV » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:04 pm



Jersey's law isn't as bad as it was when it was proposed. Basically, if you leave the dog outside for more than 30 minutes you have to provide it a dog house. The concerning part of their legislation is the height of the crates, but even still if charged, (and that's something of an "If" to get a cop to write a ticket for it) the DA would have to prosecute it. I don't totally see it.

Chapel Hill, NC prohibits tethering the dog, period. That's a regulation that, to me, seems absurd. Growing up our very spoiled Golden Retrievers were tethered out for 20 minutes while we got ready for school/work. If they barked at the door they were let in, but our neighborhood didn't allow fences.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby ryanr » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:36 am

JONOV wrote:


Jersey's law isn't as bad as it was when it was proposed. Basically, if you leave the dog outside for more than 30 minutes you have to provide it a dog house. The concerning part of their legislation is the height of the crates, but even still if charged, (and that's something of an "If" to get a cop to write a ticket for it) the DA would have to prosecute it. I don't totally see it.

Chapel Hill, NC prohibits tethering the dog, period. That's a regulation that, to me, seems absurd. Growing up our very spoiled Golden Retrievers were tethered out for 20 minutes while we got ready for school/work. If they barked at the door they were let in, but our neighborhood didn't allow fences.


NJ's law isn't any good either. 2yrs ago I was almost cited because I had my dog in it's crate in vehicle (windows down halfway.) Someone called the cops, they called her. Thankfully I was given a warning but she, the SPCA officer, took my information so it's likely recorded. She said that the law does not allow dogs to be left unattended in a vehicle FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME. And she specifically said "even to stop at convenience store for a couple minutes." Since then my dogs have never again been in the state of NJ. And there is a very good NAVHDA chapter some of my friends train with and I'd like to but I'm not risking it.

This nonsense going on, even in my home state of PA, has concerned me enough that I didn't really rotate my dogs while hunting this year. I hunted them both together although there were several times i really wanted to rotate them.
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Re: NH Problems is our Problems

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:45 am

JONOV wrote:


Jersey's law isn't as bad as it was when it was proposed. Basically, if you leave the dog outside for more than 30 minutes you have to provide it a dog house. The concerning part of their legislation is the height of the crates, but even still if charged, (and that's something of an "If" to get a cop to write a ticket for it) the DA would have to prosecute it. I don't totally see it.

Chapel Hill, NC prohibits tethering the dog, period. That's a regulation that, to me, seems absurd. Growing up our very spoiled Golden Retrievers were tethered out for 20 minutes while we got ready for school/work. If they barked at the door they were let in, but our neighborhood didn't allow fences.


NJ's law is horrible actually.

Have you never been to a training day or Hunt Test where all the dogs are staked out in the shade all day in the summer heat? This law prohibits that.

The size requirements are exactly wrong calling for too large a structure making it impossible for the dog's body heat to warm the enclosure.
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