Should the VC be a separate event?

North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association Tests

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Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ForestDump » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:35 pm

As I dig deeper into the NAVHDA world and learn about the highest level of testing this question keeps coming back to me. Does the Invitational really need to be a thing? I get that it’s the most difficult test in NAVHDA but the time, money, and travel to go to one location in America seems excessive. Not to mention giving a Champion prefix in a testing format. I can’t help but wonder if it would be more beneficial to allow the clubs to hold a VC test giving more dogs a chance to participate. At the end of the day it’s simply an evaluation that everyone can technically “win”.

Am I alone here? I get people may enjoy the exclusivity of the way it’s run now I just think it can be more average joe friendly.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ckirsch » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:28 pm

"At the end of the day it's simply an evaluation that everyone can technically "win". Maybe you should dig into the NAVHDA world a little deeper and see what percentage of NAVHDA-registered dogs earn the "Champion" title that you seem to have disdain for.
My guess is that it's much smaller than you think. Maybe there's a reason for that.

Curious as to how many VC's you've trained.....
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ForestDump » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:11 pm

ckirsch wrote:"At the end of the day it's simply an evaluation that everyone can technically "win". Maybe you should dig into the NAVHDA world a little deeper and see what percentage of NAVHDA-registered dogs earn the "Champion" title that you seem to have disdain for.
My guess is that it's much smaller than you think. Maybe there's a reason for that.

Curious as to how many VC's you've trained.....


It’s obviously a difficult achievement to obtain but it’s a test not a competition. Every entrant can technically pass. I just feel like it should be more accessible rather than having to travel to one singular site once a year.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ckirsch » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:59 pm

You chose not to answer my question
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ckirsch » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:02 pm

How many UT’s have you run?
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ckirsch » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:32 pm

That's what I thought....

Gotta love an internet expert who has yet to run a test, but feels credentialed enough to criticize NAVHDA and propose policy changes. Might be a good idea to first attend an Invitational, watch the dogs perform, and see if you still think that it would be easy to integrate into a chapter test. Oh, wait, I forgot, you should also experience a few chapter tests as well.....

Run your dog through and let us know how easy it is to pick up that "Versatile Champion" title. After all, it's not a competition and every dog can pass. Technically.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ForestDump » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:04 pm

It looks like you misunderstood my post is all. No problem.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ckirsch » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:59 am

Your post was quite easy to understand. You insulted all those who've put in the time and effort to place a VC title on their dogs.

I asked two very simple questions. Odd that you're unable to answer them. Surely you have an extensive and very impressive testing resume in order to feel comfortable telling others that their dogs aren't worthy of a "champion" title, and that every dog can pass.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby orhunter » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:50 am

One major obstacle is the facility. There aren’t all that many places that could hold the event. It’s also not about the difficulty of the participants to attend but also the officials and helpers. The human effort put into the event is tremendous.

Something else many don’t consider is where participants come from. Westerners are less likely to attend because they think more about hunting than testing. Even if the Invite were held in Idaho or a place similar, western attendance would remain quite low. It would take a while for folks to wake up to the opportunity.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ryanr » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:03 pm

Yes, it should be a separate event.
Last edited by ryanr on Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ForestDump » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:33 pm

orhunter wrote:One major obstacle is the facility. There aren’t all that many places that could hold the event. It’s also not about the difficulty of the participants to attend but also the officials and helpers. The human effort put into the event is tremendous.

Something else many don’t consider is where participants come from. Westerners are less likely to attend because they think more about hunting than testing. Even if the Invite were held in Idaho or a place similar, western attendance would remain quite low. It would take a while for folks to wake up to the opportunity.


But isn’t one issue of all the volunteers needed because of how large the event is? Clubs would be able to hold smaller tests for those qualified and not be limited to a time or location.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ForestDump » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:35 pm

ckirsch wrote:Your post was quite easy to understand. You insulted all those who've put in the time and effort to place a VC title on their dogs.

I asked two very simple questions. Odd that you're unable to answer them. Surely you have an extensive and very impressive testing resume in order to feel comfortable telling others that their dogs aren't worthy of a "champion" title, and that every dog can pass.


Not quite. I’m just talking about the barriers in place for the test. Feels like it loses the idea of what NAVHDA is supposed to be.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ckirsch » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:46 pm

Sorry, that's pretty lame. What did your comments about any dog passing, and the "champion" title being undeserved, have to do with accessibility of the Invitational?
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby ForestDump » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:54 pm

ckirsch wrote:Sorry, that's pretty lame. What did your comments about any dog passing, and the "champion" title being undeserved, have to do with accessibility of the Invitational?


Because it feels like they’re trying to take a non competitive test and twist it into something else. IMO the test should be more accessible especially for an organization that made its bones as an everyman/hunters training hunters organization.
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Re: Should the VC be a separate event?

Postby orhunter » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:59 pm

The invite is structured much differently than local tests. Every facet of the test is being run concurrently, not one at a time. Need a crew at every location plus the behind the scenes support people. Just the acreage needed to run the field search is much greater than you may imagine. The blind retrieve requires quite a bit of water, much more than your average duck search pond. There is only one way to describe the invitational, BIG. It takes the same amount of land and number of people to run the event no matter where it’s held or the number of dogs.
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