North Dakota 2019

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North Dakota 2019

Postby JONOV » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:57 pm

The Prairies were humbling and rewarding at the same time. I got up a few days before the rest of the group (duck hunters) and hunted sharptails.

I didn't make it last year and came with high hopes to see Gus work. The first day Gus did 18 or so dog miles. We saw a lot of birds. It was also disappointing to see all of the steadiness work we've done over the last two years go completely out the window. Busting, chasing, etc...Awful. We did see a lot of birds though. Towards the end of the day we put it together for one bird, and a bonus feral cat (go Wirehairs.)

The next morning his feet were pretty beat up so I kept it short, moved one big group of them in a 7 dog-mile walk.

Eventually, he started putting it together. The third afternoon we were up there he really came together and we nailed a limit in 22 minutes of hunting. After that his steadiness was much better. We did have one day where we never really moved any birds but even then we saw them; they just got up a hillside or two away from us. The last afternoon was the best; we hunted a cow pasture WPA and I saw all sorts of nice work from the dog. Unfortunately I didn't do my part though some of it could be the Kent #3's that I was shooting. More on that later.

The duck hunting, as usual, was excellent as well. About the shells...I was shooting Kent 3 shot FastSteel 2.0. They seemed to have a really, really tight pattern up close, that fell apart rather quickly (or otherwise lost energy?) at ranges I normally didn't have any trouble with. I shot two ducks that were close, but not absurdly close, that were mutiliated to the point that no meat could be recovered. Interesting.
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JONOV
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby orhunter » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:39 pm

Thanks for the photos.

I’ve noticed the same thing with that ammo as I’ve used quite a bit of it on pheasants because I hunt a big Federal Waterfowl Production area and gotta use non-toxic. Kills birds fine out to 25 yards or so but after that ya gotta stay off the trigger. It must be pretty sensitive about what choke a person uses. I shoot it through a Briley mod, standard Browning 12 ga. bore. I tried some 2 3/4 inch stuff with a Browning extended Invector + improved mod. and no measurable change. For ducks and Snow Geese, I shoot Winchester 1 3/8 oz. of 2’s through the same Briley mod. choke. It isn’t fast but it kills like no other fast steel ammo I’ve ever shot. Very dense patterns past 45 yards and good penetration. I’ve used other 1 3/8 oz. slow 2’s with the same results. I’m not sold on the high speed stuff.
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby J D Patrick » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:50 pm

Nice JONOV, nice

that is a cool background game hanger post in that first picture
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby RowdyGSP » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:58 pm

Great pics. And a super "ugly" dog. The ND prairie is a cool place.
You have to be smarter than the dog to train it.
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:50 pm

Sounds like a great trip! Your dog looks quite a bit like my ole Jack dog.

I shoot 3 inch Hevi-Metal 2s through a Patternmaster mid range choke and it is highly effective.
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby Stretch » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:44 pm

About all I shoot for steel shot Kent #2 and I’ve always had good luck with it. I shoot a little bit of BB but not much and it’s also Kent.
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby Drahthaar1108 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:07 pm

Nice hunt, glad Gus finally got it together. Forrest
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby Willie T » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:38 am

Sounds like a great time Jonov. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby JONOV » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:48 am

AverageGuy wrote:Sounds like a great trip! Your dog looks quite a bit like my ole Jack dog.

I shoot 3 inch Hevi-Metal 2s through a Patternmaster mid range choke and it is highly effective.

It was a great trip. And now that I'm in NC where it's 130 degrees and humid...I miss it all the more. I succumbed to cheapness and bought the Kent's since I know a lot of people like them. The last time I did that was 8 years ago when I bought Winchester Super-X's. I said Never again; Since then I've always used Hevimetal, Hevisteel, or Black Cloud. And, this year I ordered what should have been Bismuth 5 shot, but instead was shipped lead slugs. That put me in something of a bind being forced to stop at Fleet Farm after getting to ND. Next year I might factor in some nicer tungsten into the budget. I like the idea of using 6 shot for ducks and then not worrying about what sign is posted for upland hunting.
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:01 am

JONOV wrote:
AverageGuy wrote:Sounds like a great trip! Your dog looks quite a bit like my ole Jack dog.

I shoot 3 inch Hevi-Metal 2s through a Patternmaster mid range choke and it is highly effective.

It was a great trip. And now that I'm in NC where it's 130 degrees and humid...I miss it all the more. I succumbed to cheapness and bought the Kent's since I know a lot of people like them. The last time I did that was 8 years ago when I bought Winchester Super-X's. I said Never again; Since then I've always used Hevimetal, Hevisteel, or Black Cloud. And, this year I ordered what should have been Bismuth 5 shot, but instead was shipped lead slugs. That put me in something of a bind being forced to stop at Fleet Farm after getting to ND. Next year I might factor in some nicer tungsten into the budget. I like the idea of using 6 shot for ducks and then not worrying about what sign is posted for upland hunting.


Yes, I hunt WPAs in Iowa where non toxic is required and jump shooting some mallards or wood ducks while hunting pheasants is likely. I bought some Kent Bismuth in 23/4 4 shot for that application and shot some birds with it last season. Not sure I was real impressed with it to be honest. I have used Hevi-shot tungsten in 23/4 6s quite a bit for roosters and it is excellent and way better than the Kent Bismuth. Given a 3 bird limit, most days I very seldom shoot enough shells for the cost of using them to be prohibitive in the grand scheme of what I spend annually traveling around hunting and all the dog related expenses that go with our lifestyles.

This spring I shot 4 gobblers with 18g TSS 9 shot and it is truly amazing stuff. Next summer I plan to complete research and purchase the necessary stuff to reload it and begin using it for larger upland birds such as grouse and pheasants and waterfowl. The Science says it carries 60% more energy than lead 5s at 50 yards. I looked at the cost of the shot itself and think buying in volume will keep the cost per shell low enough to be feasible. I shot 5 ducks with 6 shells using that Hevi-Metal 2s saturday evening, (and shot a couple more to finish off cripples). I shoot the best ammo and arrows available at the best prices I can find them and believe the tradeoff in superior results is well worth it.
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby Willie T » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:30 am

AverageGuy wrote:
JONOV wrote:
AverageGuy wrote:Sounds like a great trip! Your dog looks quite a bit like my ole Jack dog.

I shoot 3 inch Hevi-Metal 2s through a Patternmaster mid range choke and it is highly effective.

It was a great trip. And now that I'm in NC where it's 130 degrees and humid...I miss it all the more. I succumbed to cheapness and bought the Kent's since I know a lot of people like them. The last time I did that was 8 years ago when I bought Winchester Super-X's. I said Never again; Since then I've always used Hevimetal, Hevisteel, or Black Cloud. And, this year I ordered what should have been Bismuth 5 shot, but instead was shipped lead slugs. That put me in something of a bind being forced to stop at Fleet Farm after getting to ND. Next year I might factor in some nicer tungsten into the budget. I like the idea of using 6 shot for ducks and then not worrying about what sign is posted for upland hunting.


Yes, I hunt WPAs in Iowa where non toxic is required and jump shooting some mallards or wood ducks while hunting pheasants is likely. I bought some Kent Bismuth in 23/4 4 shot for that application and shot some birds with it last season. Not sure I was real impressed with it to be honest. I have used Hevi-shot tungsten in 23/4 6s quite a bit for roosters and it is excellent and way better than the Kent Bismuth. Given a 3 bird limit, most days I very seldom shoot enough shells for the cost of using them to be prohibitive in the grand scheme of what I spend annually traveling around hunting and all the dog related expenses that go with our lifestyles.

This spring I shot 4 gobblers with 18g TSS 9 shot and it is truly amazing stuff. Next summer I plan to complete research and purchase the necessary stuff to reload it and begin using it for larger upland birds such as grouse and pheasants and waterfowl. The Science says it carries 60% more energy than lead 5s at 50 yards. I looked at the cost of the shot itself and think buying in volume will keep the cost per shell low enough to be feasible. I shot 5 ducks with 6 shells using that Hevi-Metal 2s saturday evening, (and shot a couple more to finish off cripples). I shoot the best ammo and arrows available at the best prices I can find them and believe the tradeoff in superior results is well worth it.


AG, #9 TSS is superior to any shot I have used. For large upland birds and turkeys it transforms a 410 to a legitimate 50 yard shotgun. In my 410 it likes an open choke.
Loading it for your 28ga with one ounce would bring the cost way down and transform your little 28 into a blast furnace.

I shoot 2 3/4” 1 1/8 oz bismuth @ 1330fps a lot for grouse and pheasant as well as waterfowl including giant Canada geese. Include a buffer in your loads and choke it like you would lead. I shoot # 5’s and out to 45 yards the bismuth has performance that is very close to lead.

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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby JONOV » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:43 am

AverageGuy wrote:
JONOV wrote:
AverageGuy wrote:Sounds like a great trip! Your dog looks quite a bit like my ole Jack dog.

I shoot 3 inch Hevi-Metal 2s through a Patternmaster mid range choke and it is highly effective.

It was a great trip. And now that I'm in NC where it's 130 degrees and humid...I miss it all the more. I succumbed to cheapness and bought the Kent's since I know a lot of people like them. The last time I did that was 8 years ago when I bought Winchester Super-X's. I said Never again; Since then I've always used Hevimetal, Hevisteel, or Black Cloud. And, this year I ordered what should have been Bismuth 5 shot, but instead was shipped lead slugs. That put me in something of a bind being forced to stop at Fleet Farm after getting to ND. Next year I might factor in some nicer tungsten into the budget. I like the idea of using 6 shot for ducks and then not worrying about what sign is posted for upland hunting.


Yes, I hunt WPAs in Iowa where non toxic is required and jump shooting some mallards or wood ducks while hunting pheasants is likely. I bought some Kent Bismuth in 23/4 4 shot for that application and shot some birds with it last season. Not sure I was real impressed with it to be honest. I have used Hevi-shot tungsten in 23/4 6s quite a bit for roosters and it is excellent and way better than the Kent Bismuth. Given a 3 bird limit, most days I very seldom shoot enough shells for the cost of using them to be prohibitive in the grand scheme of what I spend annually traveling around hunting and all the dog related expenses that go with our lifestyles.

This spring I shot 4 gobblers with 18g TSS 9 shot and it is truly amazing stuff. Next summer I plan to complete research and purchase the necessary stuff to reload it and begin using it for larger upland birds such as grouse and pheasants and waterfowl. The Science says it carries 60% more energy than lead 5s at 50 yards. I looked at the cost of the shot itself and think buying in volume will keep the cost per shell low enough to be feasible. I shot 5 ducks with 6 shells using that Hevi-Metal 2s saturday evening, (and shot a couple more to finish off cripples). I shoot the best ammo and arrows available at the best prices I can find them and believe the tradeoff in superior results is well worth it.

I used the Bismuth Kent for my 28 gauge when my wife wanted to join me duck hunting. It folded up a couple big bluebills but we picked our shots.
Similarly I might have to look at the costs involved for reloading tungsten of some kind. I do have a friend that would let me/help me use his reloading bench.
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby Drahthaar1108 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:54 pm

Where are you guys getting the TSS shot to reload .
I have a friend that duck hunts with a 410 2 1/2" TSS and kills mallards 45 yards regular.

Willie T would you care to share the TSS 410 load ? PM would be great . Forrest
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Re: North Dakota 2019

Postby Willie T » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:27 pm

Drahthaar1108 wrote:Where are you guys getting the TSS shot to reload .
I have a friend that duck hunts with a 410 2 1/2" TSS and kills mallards 45 yards regular.

Willie T would you care to share the TSS 410 load ? PM would be great . Forrest


PM sent.
I included where to purchase the shot. The data I used is not published data. I included where I got the data. I am hesitant to provide unpublished data. It has been a good performer for me however, I am not willing to take on any form of responsibility if things do not go well with data I had no hand in developing or pressure testing.

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