Fox Drag

[Willie T]

AG, the one solid takeaway I get from this post is the importance of correctly reading the dog...I think we are both in agreement, the foundation is breaking down and what the dog learned in FF can be used to correct the problem of spitting the fox prior to the handler giving the release command. Whether anyone is looking or not.
Willie

[woodboro]

Draht1108 -

While out training , this morning I was thinking of you.
One of the things I did not mention is that you know your dog - THAT IS his temperament.

going slow is 100% the best solution , but here is another catch 22 I want you to realize-
Most handlers prepin for a HZP or VGP just pound the dog with drag after drag..
Many dogs fail the tests in the autumn , not because of lack of force breaking , but the dog is fed - up doing drags.
I've seen in / been there/ done it.
I am always 100% leery of doing to much - I am gettin old.
If you are on a 7 day program , do these training fox drags 3 times a week.
let the dog think about it.
At 55 pounds it sounds like one of my dogs I had , that handled a VGP test , but he was destined for the bird field.
My point watch the temper of the dog doing the drills.

Average Guy - trust me when I read you had no experience with this / I appreciate your comments - it keeps us thinkin.

[Drahthaar1108]

To clarify, Gus does the fox drag or coon drag in the open where I can see him perfect. that is why I moved to the woods.
when I cannot see him in the woods some where along the track he hides the fox or coon. I have a GPS collar on him when we are doing the track he goes straight to the fox or coon and starts back and some where along the way he hides it, haven't been able to find it.
He does the rabbit and duck drag in the woods perfect.
Woodboro, yes at 55 LBS he is a bird hunting machine, all day and never tires.
I am on a tug boat for 14 days at a time, then home for 14 days, I train 14days straight morning and afternoon, afternoon is pretty slow.
I try not to overdo the drags about 1 a week. Forrest

[AverageGuy]

At least my reading comprehension is intact.

I have trained dogs to run drag tracks out of sight and return with what was used to lay the track. None of my dogs have buried the object or failed to return with it. They have been very excited and proud to show me what they found, and they have all brought me whatever they find in the course of hunting or exercising provided it was possible to pick it up and carry it.

That would be what I meant by I have no experience with the problem of the dog burying the object or not showing up with it.

Forrest, Wish we were neighbors we could train and hunt together. Keep us posted.

[woodboro]

one drag a week is not enough.

bird hunting machine is reference to my 61 pound ult. test vdd stud.

[GONEHUNTIN']

If they won't do it in the open, you can't expect them to do it in cover. Work in open fields starting at 50'yards and working out to 100, then 200 then 300 and so on. When he drops it or deviates from course coming in, buzz him with the collar and give correctional command. When he's perfect, move to cover.

[Drahthaar1108]

Woodboro I will move up to 3 times a week, was just afraid of over doing it like you were talking about.
AG, I too wish we lived close , I can tell you have the same love of a good working dog and hunting as I do.
This is also my first time having a dog that has left or buried something after they found it , anyway I am not giving up.
My grandfather told me when I was a little boy , to train a dog you have to be smarter than the dog. that might be my problem with Gus. Forrest

[woodboro]

burying , eating are forms of contempt against a handler.

most cases to much pressure, and a retaliation.

Now that we know he can do a 400 meter or greater retrieve of a fox in the open ....
Start your drag like others have stated in open and transition into woods.
checkcord the whole way , and coming back with huge congrad's.
Sometimes dogs do not think when you congratulated them , it's more of the same , but saying to dog - THAT WAS A HUGE accomplishment.
makes dog feel proud he did it for himself as well as dad.
I like to use on blood tracks at the end of a track - braunschweiger. Just a inch by inch piece.
If you watch a dog they smack their lips , and when they it this - it is like gravy.

Short to longer , and don't worry about the test or reaching that exact limit.
Even prior to the test if you reach 300 yards on and then off checkcord or partially , and dog does a home run - that is all that counts.

test day will take care of it's self.
Thanks for being frank with us.

[Drahthaar1108]

Woodboro, Thank you for all of your help ,also all the other's suggestions .
I don't no what braungchweiger is , what is it and where do you get it ?
The only time I have ever given Gus a treat is after a blood trail, I give him a piece of raw deer meat or a hotdog. both him and my old dog get a treat for their teeth at bed time.
Gus did a 900yard blood track using 8 OZ blood that was 24 HRS old , heat index was 112deg . Forrest

[woodboro]

i'll google it 4 u

https://www.google.com/search?q=braunsc ... GCKMZDmC3M:

[Drahthaar1108]

Thank you but I already google it. Forrest

[GONEHUNTIN']

Burying game can also be a possessiveness. What you are seeing is a basic failure of FF and of recall. Try doing it in the open but in LIGHT cover. When he is on the trail, lie down so he can't see you. See what happens when he starts back. It may be out of sight out of mind and he doesn't need to be in the woods to do it. When a dog starts doing this he may do it in a cattail swamp with a pheasant as well. I'm with the others that think you're probably boring him to death as well.

[Drahthaar1108]

GH, good idea, I can get in the ditch and hide when he is doing the track.
Don't no where I failed in FF, he retrieves everything else to hand. not to say that couldn't change, you know a dog will make a liar out of you . Forrest

[GONEHUNTIN']

You didn't fail in anything. Dogs just backslide which is why the same dog doesn't win a trial every weekend. Difference is, you have the tools to correct him.

[AverageGuy]

Forrest, I wondered if you had a chance to do some more work and how it was going? I think you have a VGP coming up?