How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby joecool7296 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:27 pm

I also think the DD might be on the bigger side for a decoy dog. The reason that I thought I'd give it a try is that coyotes in the east (where I live) are bigger than their western counterparts, which is where most decoying takes place. Also, a larger dog will likely not being intimidating when there is more than one coyote, or if they are sufficiently territorial (late winter, spring, early summer). Most folks send their dogs out when they hear or see the coyotes, so I guess you could decide if it was the right situation on a case by case basis.

I don't think a dog would make a great companion while bowhunting because of potential movement when deer are very close. Since I'm color blind, the dog will be used for every animal that doesn't drop in its tracks. There are certain scenarios that it would be helpful to just have the dog with me though, ie. if I traveled an hour to hunt somewhere and walked a mile into my spot... no reason to walk two extra miles, or drive 2 extra hours just to recover a heart shot deer... which is what I have to do now to get a friend/family member to track for me, as I don't wander around where I shot in hopes of stumbling upon it, because then I can muck up the blood trail for someone who can actually see it..
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby J D Patrick » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:54 pm

AverageGuy - I get a kick out of the pictures of that small terrier every time I see them,,,I love those little dogs,,,,have had two and one day will have another
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby JTracyII » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:01 pm

What type of small terrier is that in the pic?
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby J D Patrick » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:19 am

JTracyII wrote:What type of small terrier is that in the pic?



Jack Russell if I recall correctly,,,
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby Highlander » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:17 am

What you have described suggests me you don’t need a versatile dog.
Versatile dog here means an upland bird dog that comes with extra benefits. Unlike British breeds.
SUV (DD, DK, PP) vs Sedan (EP, ES, IS).

What you need Sir, is Norwegian elkhound or Finish Spitz. If you are not familiar look them up.
These breeds have been used for thousands of years by the Scandinavians and Saami people to hunt the things you have listed. They have evolved in very similar geographical areas such as Canada, or US northern woodlands.

These breeds can, literally, hunt anything from big game such as moose and brown bears to the small game such as rabbits or squirrels. On top of this they are excellent bird hunters and retrievers too. Many of them very successfully hunt grouses, ducks and geese. However, they are not pointers. They will bark when they find a grouse or squirrel.

I am sure it will be hard to find them here in USA, but if you are willing to pay $1000 for a drathaar pup you may as well be looking into importing options.

Also, keep in mind that however tough and Arnold Schwarzeneggerish DD seems, which I am very high opinion of, they are still bird dogs and have limitations.
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:08 pm

Terrific post Highlander! It's not good for anyone to purposely subject their dog to situations where it might get hurt.
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:00 am

Every time you cut a dog loose to hunt you are subjecting it to the possibility of injury or worse.

An Elkhound is superior to a DD for JoeCool's list of duties. Not hardly.

It was a heat index of 105 here yesterday and my dog and I holed up inside in the afternoon for awhile. I searched a popular DD FB forum using the search word of coyote. Many instances of DDs handling coyotes came up. The Breeder recommended in this thread expressed his view that DDs were bred for true versatile work which includes dispatching fur, not just a dog which will do upland or waterfowl. He is adamantly opposed to the suggestion, and worse the trend, that DDs be limited to just "bird work".

Edit to add:

Just did the same search of the same site using "Bobcat". Same Breeder had posted 6 different photos of different DDs of his breeding which had successfully handled multiple bobcats which were also in the photos.

Obviously all are free to choose what they do with their dogs.

Posting criticisms of those who use these dogs to their fullest and original purposes is the kind of wrong headed thinking that had birddog guys standing on the sidelines while hunting MT Lions and Bears with dogs in Oregon and California was banned ...
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby ryanr » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:08 pm

Good post AG.

It was already 90 degrees and miserably humid here too this morning by about 10AM. Heat index this whole weekend has been 105-109 degrees. A/C going 24/7. The lakewater is like bath water right now so we've been going down to the tailwater outlet of the dam. Water is around 55 degrees or so. We got home and I discover he has a hook in his leg, trailed by about a foot of fishing line. He wasn't in pain and it didn't slow him down, a quick snip with 8" inch cutters and it was out. A little antibiotic ointment and he was good to go.
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:17 pm

ryanr,

Yea I am paranoid about fish hooks and they are a very real hazard around public waters.

A long time ago I was throwing bumpers into some standing flooded hedge tree timber on a 50 acre public fishing/hunting lake to the dog in the bobcat photo in this thread. While swimming out to a throw deep into the trees, he strangely changed his course and went around in a loop instead of completing the retrieve. He made several attempts to continue in the direction of the bumper but each time would turn and swim back in a loop.

As I grew increasingly concerned it dawned on me that he was hung up on something in the water. Off went my boots and into the water I went. I swam up to the dog as he remained amazingly calm swimming in loops around me. As I tread water kicking my legs, I swept my hands and arms around under the water and came across an illegally set 1000lb braided nylon limb line tied to a limb on a hedge tree in the water. I followed the line up to my dog's hind leg and found it wrapped around his leg with the tip of the hook stuck in the fold of the back of his hock.

That dog was truly amazing how calm he remained, as both of us treaded water and I unwound the line and remove the hook which by the Grace of God was not yet embedded past the barb. Got it out and we both swam to shore.

In the decades since, I have always carried a leatherman tool on my belt, as I had no knife on me when that occurred, and I mostly train on ponds which require me to walk in a good distance which reduces the risk of trash, fishing line and hooks around.

Nothing is completely safe.
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Re: How much can we expect from our versatile dogs?

Postby JONOV » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:05 pm

AverageGuy wrote:ryanr,

Yea I am paranoid about fish hooks and they are a very real hazard around public waters.

A long time ago I was throwing bumpers into some standing flooded hedge tree timber on a 50 acre public fishing/hunting lake to the dog in the bobcat photo in this thread. While swimming out to a throw deep into the trees, he strangely changed his course and went around in a loop instead of completing the retrieve. He made several attempts to continue in the direction of the bumper but each time would turn and swim back in a loop.

As I grew increasingly concerned it dawned on me that he was hung up on something in the water. Off went my boots and into the water I went. I swam up to the dog as he remained amazingly calm swimming in loops around me. As I tread water kicking my legs, I swept my hands and arms around under the water and came across an illegally set 1000lb braided nylon limb line tied to a limb on a hedge tree in the water. I followed the line up to my dog's hind leg and found it wrapped around his leg with the tip of the hook stuck in the fold of the back of his hock.

That dog was truly amazing how calm he remained, as both of us treaded water and I unwound the line and remove the hook which by the Grace of God was not yet embedded past the barb. Got it out and we both swam to shore.

In the decades since, I have always carried a leatherman tool on my belt, as I had no knife on me when that occurred, and I mostly train on ponds which require me to walk in a good distance which reduces the risk of trash, fishing line and hooks around.

Nothing is completely safe.

Yeah, I took my dog with me to check my trotline, never doing that again...
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