Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

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Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby RiverRunner » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:55 pm

I lost my Lab a few months ago and have started to think about a new dog. Pudelpointers and Wire Haired Pointing Griffons interest me. I do probably 70% duck hunting and the rest is pheasent hunting in Minnesota. I'd like to start doing a little more upland like sharptail.
-How do these dogs due with Cold water.
-How much do these dogs shed.
-My daughter has a cat. I'm assuming these breeds can be trained to not go after the cat. Does anyone have any experience with a cat living under the same roof as these two breeds?

Just weighing my options right now. I really like the demeanor of Labs and I might go with another one.

Thanks
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby flitecontrol » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:10 am

Both breeds will have the drive to retrieve waterfowl, but the Griffon usually has a better coat. That said, it can be really difficult to find a WPG with a hard, dense coat because many of them are soft, which will also attract cockleburrs and such. Have you thought about DD/GWP? Getting a better coat with those breeds is a lot less iffy.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby orhunter » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:38 am

Finding a good PP breeder is a snap, not so with a Griff.... but you are on the right track by being here at V-Dogs. Bab Farris is one person who hunts his PP's in single digits when chasing waterfowl and I'm sure a lot of others do also. But, it isn't so much about the breed, it says a lot about the individual dog and conditioning. When you make a decision about what breed you want and you pick a Griff, don't buy off the rack, get good solid recommendations from those who know the breed. Good Griffs are out there but ya gotta ask. A good starting place for your personal research is here in the kennel section. It'll go a long way in letting you know what you don't want so when you do find what you want, you'll know you made the right decision. Just because this is a hunting dog website does not mean the individual kennels are focused on breeding the best of the breed. A lot of breeders don't have websites so to learn anything about their dogs requires e-mails and phone calls. A slow process. Some Griff breeders are only discovered through word of mouth, don't rely on the internet.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby K Locke » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:28 pm

I’m a Griff owner but I regularly duck hunt with both breeds. Not as much super cold weather. From the dogs that I’ve hunted with, the PP generally moves faster and is crazier about ducks in general. The Griff on the other hand is generally quieter and have better manors in the duck blind. These are only generalizations and I’m sure people can give examples of how the opposite is true. I agree with OR, finding a sure thing in the PP world is a lot easier than the Griff world for reasons he mentioned. The Griff shedding is minimal. I only notice it when I sweep the floor. It doesn't stick to clothing the same as other dogs. I’ve never raised a Griff with cat. My dogs kill cats when they get into the back yard.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby Coveyrise64 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:46 pm

K Locke wrote:....I only notice it when I sweep the floor.


I'll need a picture of that or Jack's verification as to the credibility of the statement..... :D

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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby orhunter » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:48 pm

My first Griff was a waterfowl machine. Fetching ducks at 4 1/2 months and geese a short time later. She could hardly swim with a drake Mallard in her mouth. She was as good as any Labrador around but she couldn't swim quite as fast. The odd thing is, she had a really crappy pedigree.

Cats: A pup brought up with a cat around can be taught boundaries. While it may leave your cat alone, the strays that come over the fence are fair game. Not a bad thing. Griffs like the feel of fur in their mouth.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby orhunter » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:50 pm

"only notice it when I sweep the floor." Stop sweeping, problem solved.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby johnnycake » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:09 pm

I've got an 18 mo PP from Cedarwood's, and I hunt her up here in Alaska. She's a BEAST on ducks and in the water generally, and she has very good blind manners. She has a medium dense/medium harsh wirecoat, and air dries very quickly even in below freezing temps. If you were a lab guy, you'll love PPs (I was a lab guy previously). And my PP does not shed, and I strip her out only once a year, don't even brush her the rest of the time.

There are a few WPGs in our NAVHDA chapter and I've yet to see one that impressed me in the water, and very few of them have much drive in the field either. Plus, the long coats on WPGs tend to hold the water in more, taking longer to dry. This leads to a cold dog pretty quick when temps are low.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby marsh » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:46 am

My PP just turned 5... He is an awesome dog in the house and in the field and blind. We have hunted puddle ducks in small water and ducks on the Saginaw bay. He has broken ice retrieving ducks... Can he handle the same cold that a lab can- not quite just does not have the body mass. But it is close.

My kids love him and he loves the kids. He loves other dogs too. I came from having labs and there are a lot of similarities but lots of differences too in personalities
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby Meridiandave » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:06 pm

I have a wpg that is a 4 in dog search dog. Yet if I did more duck hunting I would get a PP. She likes the water, but doesnt love the water. She just has tremendous drive. I see a lot of both breeds at training days and training. I think on the whole the PP I have seen take to the water quicker and seem to do better. I love both breeds and wouldnt hesitate getting a PP and their are some good griffs around.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby flitecontrol » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:43 pm

Meridiandave wrote:I have a wpg that is a 4 in dog search dog. Yet if I did more duck hunting I would get a PP. She likes the water, but doesnt love the water. She just has tremendous drive. I see a lot of both breeds at training days and training. I think on the whole the PP I have seen take to the water quicker and seem to do better. I love both breeds and wouldnt hesitate getting a PP and their are some good griffs around.


What you describe about your female is probably more a reflection of that particular dog than the breed as a whole.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby Meridiandave » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:39 am

Flitecontrol, what part?
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby flitecontrol » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:59 pm

Sorry, should have responded more clearly. I was referring to the part about her not liking the water. I had a WPG that I was introducing to the water around three months of age. As I walked into the water, my movement caused a big leaf to come swirling up from the bottom and then drift back down. He watched intently from the bank until it began to sink, then dove almost completely underwater to grab the leaf. Turned out to be the best waterfowl dog I'd had to that point. But he never pointed.

If someone deduced that this dog was typical of the breed (great water affinity, no pointing), it wouldn't be a true reflection of the breed, just that individual dog.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby bhennessy » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:22 pm

johnnycake wrote:There are a few WPGs in our NAVHDA chapter and I've yet to see one that impressed me in the water, and very few of them have much drive in the field either. Plus, the long coats on WPGs tend to hold the water in more, taking longer to dry. This leads to a cold dog pretty quick when temps are low.


All depends on the kennel I’ve come to believe. These wiry v-dogs are all much more similar than they are different, assuming a great breeding program. Look at Stonyridge griffs - tighter coats that don’t collect burrs, mine’s a monster in the water, has great pointing and retrieve instinct and is super sharp on anything wearing fur besides other dogs. We don’t have any cats so maybe he’d be different if he’d been around one from day one.

That said, I’ve got a pudelpointer in my future as soon as I can convince the smarter half that three V-mutts is are what we need.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby Meridiandave » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:51 am

Here is a Griff with hunting coat that is in great shape and she has plenty of hunt drive.
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