DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

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DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby Dflorea » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:45 pm

WARNING!!!!WARNING
DO NOT PURCHSE A PUDELPOINTER FROM MIKE PALOTTA AT PINERIDGE KENNELS CANADA. My male pudlel pointer helped 12\22\2016. I've had two knee ccl operations on both knees. COST OVER $5000.00. Today my pup had grand mall SIEZURE. BESIDE THE INITIAL COST.ALMOST $2000. AND THE EMOTIONAL COST OF A FAMILY PET.and hunting partner. bull$#*! BREEDING , AND THE FACT THAT HE WILL NOT ALLOW OWNERS TO REGISTER HIS DOGS (GREED). AM i UPSET?? yes. I GAVE HIM THE BENEFIT of the doubt as well as cash. Buyers beware!! Ive got one big Heartache on my hands>
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby JONOV » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:04 pm

Dflorea wrote:WARNING!!!!WARNING
DO NOT PURCHSE A PUDELPOINTER FROM MIKE PALOTTA AT PINERIDGE KENNELS CANADA. My male pudlel pointer helped 12\22\2016. I've had two knee ccl operations on both knees. COST OVER $5000.00. Today my pup had grand mall SIEZURE. BESIDE THE INITIAL COST.ALMOST $2000. AND THE EMOTIONAL COST OF A FAMILY PET.and hunting partner. bull$#*! BREEDING , AND THE FACT THAT HE WILL NOT ALLOW OWNERS TO REGISTER HIS DOGS (GREED). AM i UPSET?? yes. I GAVE HIM THE BENEFIT of the doubt as well as cash. Buyers beware!! Ive got one big Heartache on my hands>

What do you think he should have done differently? What are you alleging he did to deceive you? Are you saying that he bred dogs that he knew had problems with Seizures or CCL's? That he concealed or failed to do testing that could have prevented it?

His kennel shows a bunch of dogs testing on the NAVHDA website, that doesn't happen without registering the dogs. If you means he sells them with restricted breeding rights, that's relatively common; especially with less common breeds. The NAVHDA registry also doesn't show any dogs whelped on 12/22/16. There's a litter whelped that date in 2010, but not 2016.

If one CCL goes, there's a high probability that the other will go as the other knee is compensating the recovering knee. With active dogs, it sometimes happens.
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby Dflorea » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:42 pm

Go ahead and purchase a dog from him ! Good luck ! I said every thing I’m going to say on this. You want to defend go ahead. But you are failing to see the big picture. I don’t care what you think. No one offered to compensate me or make anything “right”. He’s my dog and I’ll have to live with it. I’m not going to give kudos to any breeder that who doesn’t screen his breeding stock or offer to make things right. So I’m putting this into the buyer beware category. Sorry I can’t be nice about this!
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby orhunter » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:42 pm

$2000 for a PP!!! It should come with a solid gold water bowl.

Ethically, he should offer some compensation if these problems arose within a certain time period. Good breeders do provide a limited health guarantee. Check your paperwork.

I know it's fairly difficult to weed out kennel problems in advance of getting a pup but a person still needs to try. If Mike's got a history of health defects in his dogs, you should be able to find something. If what you're dealing with is a first and last time occurrence, you need to calm down and try to work with Mike. Do your homework.
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby Dflorea » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:58 pm

I really don’t get any pleasure out of informing people of the sad facts about this. Only other time anything close to this has happened to me was from a backyard breeder.
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby Doc E » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:53 pm

Although there MIGHT be a genetic predisposition for a bad Tibial Plateau Angle (thus a CCL tear) there is no current proof that it is actually the case.
Same with seizures, it MIGHT be genetic, but there is no current proof that that is the case.
I think you are tilting at straw men.

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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby JONOV » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:46 pm

Dflorea wrote:Go ahead and purchase a dog from him ! Good luck ! I said every thing I’m going to say on this. You want to defend go ahead. But you are failing to see the big picture. I don’t care what you think. No one offered to compensate me or make anything “right”. He’s my dog and I’ll have to live with it. I’m not going to give kudos to any breeder that who doesn’t screen his breeding stock or offer to make things right. So I’m putting this into the buyer beware category. Sorry I can’t be nice about this!

Answer my question. What did he do that was dishonest or irresponsible?
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby ryanr » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:56 pm

Dflorea wrote:Go ahead and purchase a dog from him ! Good luck ! I said every thing I’m going to say on this. You want to defend go ahead. But you are failing to see the big picture. I don’t care what you think. No one offered to compensate me or make anything “right”. He’s my dog and I’ll have to live with it. I’m not going to give kudos to any breeder that who doesn’t screen his breeding stock or offer to make things right. So I’m putting this into the buyer beware category. Sorry I can’t be nice about this!


He didn't defend anything, he asked a few questions. Sorry about your dog but no need to be rude to him.
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby JTracyII » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:23 am

Hey Man,

Sorry to hear about your dog. If you don't mind, what is the pedigree name of your pup or parents your pup is out of? You can PM if you prefer.
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby Dflorea » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:07 pm

I apologies if I’ve been rude. Really, love the dog. But I’ve loved every dog I’ve owned. PP are suseptable to epilepsy. I just found this out. I guess that when he had the seizure that was the last straw. It felt like adding insult to injury. When anyone breeds they are responsible for their product offspring. I didn’t do anything wrong. I paid good money in good faith for a healthy dog. What I got was a pup with ccl disease genetic and not screened for. And a seizure prone possible epileptic dog. Genetic again. Some one is not doing their due diligence. You could say it’s me because I didn’t listen to other breeders who advised me not to purchase a PP from Pineridge. So rude or not I’m sticking to my mantra “Buyer Beware”. I don’t breed I’ve never bred nor will I breed dogs. But you can damn well bet that I would stand 100% behind a pup that I sold. And don’t get me wrong I’m not asking for anything from anyone. That’s just the way I feel.
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby JONOV » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:08 pm

JTracyII wrote:Hey Man,

Sorry to hear about your dog. If you don't mind, what is the pedigree name of your pup or parents your pup is out of? You can PM if you prefer.

It’s seafxhable on NAVHDA. Only one litter whelped on 12/22, in December 2010 and you can search by the kennel or breeders name.

It really stinks but I don’t think it’s fair for OP to slam him on the web. A health guarantee is typically limited to what the breeder can control and prevent; hips, elbows, eyes... Nothing the OP presented said that Mr. Pallotta concealed or reneged or lied.

In fact, looking at the litters he’s whelped, I think OP has a nearly 8 year old dog. Even if the Dam or Sire developed epilepsy by seven or eight, that would be too late, as their breeding career would have been largely over. If either line had a history of epilepsy that the breeder knew of, that might be a fair complaint.

Are you saying his lines have a susceptibility to epiliepsy that other PP lines don’t? Or that a preponderance of his dogs more than other PPs have ccl tears?

But spending any amount of money on a dog, from a $25 Pound Rescue to a $500 Craigslist Lab to a $2000 Bulgarian Frankenhund is no guarantee that the dog won’t get hurt or sick.
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby Doc E » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:27 pm

Dflorea wrote: What I got was a pup with ccl disease genetic and not screened for. And a seizure prone possible epileptic dog. Genetic again.


Let me be clear AGAIN :

There is no proof that CCL problems are genetic ! ! ! ! !
There is no "screening" for CCL integrity

There is no proof that epilepsy is genetic ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Show me the proof .

What about that don't you understand -- or are you just dense ?

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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby Calvinator » Tue May 28, 2019 8:56 am

In the 16 years of being involved with PP, this is the first I’ve ever heard of a PP having a seizure. Where did you ever learn that the breed is prone to seizures?
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby greg jacobs » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:44 am

Doc E wrote:
Dflorea wrote: What I got was a pup with ccl disease genetic and not screened for. And a seizure prone possible epileptic dog. Genetic again.


Let me be clear AGAIN :

There is no proof that CCL problems are genetic ! ! ! ! !
There is no "screening" for CCL integrity

There is no proof that epilepsy is genetic ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Show me the proof .

What about that don't you understand -- or are you just dense ?

.


I personally know nothing about it and you should be the expert, but I do know that was pretty rude.

Though idiopathic epilepsy can occur in any breed, it is considered an inheritable disease in many breeds and in some breeds a genetic basis has been identified. Therefore, dogs diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy should not be used for breeding

. This appears to also be the case in canine epilepsy genetics. There are two forms of canine epilepsies for which gene mutations have been described to date: the progressive myoclonic epilepsies (PMEs) and idiopathic epilepsy (IE). Gene discovery in the PMEs has been more successful, with eight known genes;
Last edited by greg jacobs on Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DO NOT PURCHASE A PUDLEPOINTER FROM Pineridge kennels

Postby greg jacobs » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:03 am

Doc E wrote:
Dflorea wrote: What I got was a pup with ccl disease genetic and not screened for. And a seizure prone possible epileptic dog. Genetic again.


Let me be clear AGAIN :

There is no proof that CCL problems are genetic ! ! ! ! !
There is no "screening" for CCL integrity

There is no proof that epilepsy is genetic ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Show me the proof .

What about that don't you understand -- or are you just dense ?

.



current evidence points to a complex interplay between conformation, genetics, and the mechanics of how a dog moves.

a study was undertaken to consider putative genetic components in susceptible dog breeds. A candidate gene, single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) genotyping approach using MALDI-TOF mass spectrometry (Sequenom Ltd) was designed to investigate several CCLR-susceptible dog breeds and identify CCLR-associated genes/gene regions that may confer susceptibility or resistance. A meta-analysis was performed using the breed case/control candidate gene data to identify SNP associations that were common to the whole cohort of susceptible dogs. We identified SNPs in key genes involved in ligament strength, stability and extracellular matrix formation (COL5A1, COL5A2, COL1A1, COL3A1, COL11A1, COL24A1, FBN1, LOX, LTBP2) which were significantly associated with CCLR susceptibility across the dog breeds used in this study. These SNPs could have an involvement in CCLR due to a detrimental effect on ligament structure and strength. This is the first published candidate gene study that has revealed significant genetic associations with canine CCLR.

PMID 24684544 [Indexed for MEDLINE]
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