Introducing pup to quail

Pointing, retrieving, flushing, tracking, behavioral issues, puppy training, etc.

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Introducing pup to quail

Postby Timoteov » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:38 pm

I recently got half a dozen quail so I could introduce my 13 week old GWP to some birds. Yesterday I introduced him to his first live bird and he loved it! He immediately grabbed it and started carrying it around. I had it come to me and praised him while removing the bird. Then we did 3-4 retrieves with the live bird (taped wings) and he did very little chewing and didn’t try to eat it.

Eventually I felt that I was torturing the poor thing so I killed it. Gave him a quick break and then we worked on some more difficult retrieves with the dead bird. He really impressed by finding the bird in tall cover when he could not see exactly where it fell.

I’m sure I did some things wrong yesterday, but it was amazing to see a change in his demeanor and you could really tell he enjoyed the bird. I’ve never seen him so excited.

My question is what would be the best way to utilize the 5 remaining birds I have? I have been following the 10 minute retriever book and Tom Dokken's Retriever Training book, but neither has a direct plan on introducing birds. They both seem to agree that introducing birds at a young age is an excellent idea.

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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby orhunter » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:41 pm

13 weeks is far to young to be doing what you’re doing. Just my opinion.
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby Timoteov » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:49 pm

orhunter wrote:13 weeks is far to young to be doing what you’re doing. Just my opinion.


I'll take all the opinions I can get. He is my first bid dog and I am trying to get it right.
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:18 pm

I recommend you clean and eat those remaining quail and buy the Perfect Start DVD, study and follow it.
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby Drahthaar1108 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:00 pm

I would not tape the wings on a live quail for the pup.
Wait a while , about a month or more and put the bird in a launcher.
Have you introduced the pup to gun fire ? very important now , be careful.
When you do the retrieves just a few times at this age ,3 is enough .make sure you have a check cord on the pup, he might decide he wants to keep it. Forrest
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby woodboro » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:41 pm

house breakin
commands
kennel commands as well as vehicle
if he is doing well , some whistle commands
Walks in woods
walks in fields
walking in water
U can put a few of those wings together on fishin line , long pole , and practice pointin .. 3-4 a night , every 3 days or so.
wrap two socks in a knot and toss down a hall way.... 2-3 x a night / twice a week.
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Let pup be a pup and let him explore this beautiful hunting world.
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby Timoteov » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:51 pm

Most of what I've read is that introducing birds at a young age fosters a stronger bird drive. That's why I bought them. Well that and alot of advice says if you're going to introduce gunfire it's best to do it around birds.

He knows
Sit
Here
Down
Kennel

He hasn't been properly introduced to water but loves his pool and yesterday he decided to join the kids in their bath.

On here I've seen pups conditioned to birds at 8 weeks
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby Doc E » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:13 pm

No way in the world would I use Quail for bird introduction.
Too small --- Much too easy to crunch and munch and eat.
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby Willie T » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:34 am

Congrats on the soft mouth. That is good. Your pups love of birds is strong motivation for you to tap into in training. Did he point the quail? In your pic it looks like he may be on point. Don’t let him catch anymore that are alive. I think I would use a few of them to intro him to water. Meanwhile I would start to condition to noise and gunfire. If he is pointing the birds I would begin working toward helping him steady up to allow you to flush the birds and shoot them for him.
It takes birds to make a bird dog. I introduce a puppy to birds early. Just be careful not to let him catch the live birds. Figuring out he can’t catch them re-enforces the instinct to point. Catching them on land rewards taking them out rather than pointing them. Retrieving live birds out of the water would be good. I like running puppies on wild birds. If you don’t have that, pick up a few launchers. Now that you have introduced him to birds, no more catching them.
Good luck with your pup
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby hunter94 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:05 am

agree, DO NOT let him catch birds on his own......also teach him whoa now (stop and stand still)......do not teach him to sit, you can do that later.
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby Timoteov » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:54 am

Willie T wrote:Congrats on the soft mouth. That is good. Your pups love of birds is strong motivation for you to tap into in training. Did he point the quail? In your pic it looks like he may be on point. Don’t let him catch anymore that are alive. I think I would use a few of them to intro him to water. Meanwhile I would start to condition to noise and gunfire. If he is pointing the birds I would begin working toward helping him steady up to allow you to flush the birds and shoot them for him.
It takes birds to make a bird dog. I introduce a puppy to birds early. Just be careful not to let him catch the live birds. Figuring out he can’t catch them re-enforces the



Appreciate the detailed advice. He's starting to figure out pointing but it's definitely hit and miss.

I Appreciate the advice. I'll look into whoaa training and the best way to do it.

I might be antsy but I'm wanting to get him used to gun fire asap so that's my next step I think. Good news is he's not a timid dog and lives with my two insanely loud children. Gunfire is probably preferable to a toddler fit for him :lol:
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby Dmog » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:57 am

You will be fine. You did a live bird intro and that is enough for now. Pup likes birds and now you need to test for consistent scent acknowledgement and/or pointing from time to time as it will kick in at some point if you have a well breed pup. If you are by yourself then a remote launch trap is well worth the money. You want to set up scenarios where you are in control and you reinforce the pup scent pointing. Pup is on lead and you will 90 degree your pup 10-15 yards into the downwind scent cone of the bird. As soon as your pup gives any indication it smells the bird, release the bird. It is better to work from too great a distance to closer than to pop the trap at the pups nose. 13 wks maybe a little young as the pup must be able to actively search with coordination. Maybe better getting out in the fields letting the pup explore. My Griff started locking up at 14 weeks and my PP at 16 weeks(picture attached, pigeon about 10 yards in shorter grass, she held 10-15 seconds and started to creep closer and I released the pigeon, let her chase dragging the check cord. Example of ideal grass length and that first point may not be pretty but it is one for the memory!) Both my dogs had live bird exposure at 12-13 wks with a pigeon wing locked. Some do not start until 6-8 months. Once you can tell the pup is picking up scent from its body language(why the field exposure for you and your pup are so important) then you can start working with live birds on a regular basis. Preventing the pup from routinely catching birds on the ground that do not fly will keep you out of trouble down the road. I have been fortunate to have dogs that were forgiving with a few quail/chukars that didn't want to fly and I think most dogs are if it isn't a consistent occurrence.

As far as whoa training before hand, it has its usefulness and is a command you will need at some point. Certainly has merit to introduce this command in the yard at a young age. I myself prefer to whoa train after the pup has figured out it can't catch those birds its been chasing. I find that the range of my dogs stays out there better after steadiness training if I save whoa training in the field until after the pup has chased its share of birds it can't catch ie (wild birds or feral pigeons from a trap).

As to your remaining birds, intro to water is good idea with one and if they will fly more that 20 ft from your hand, put the pup on 20ft lead and release the birds in front of the pup stopping the pup after a short chase. Better yet, give them some food and water and in two weeks plant one with pup on the lead and take the pup to find them.

I second the Perfect Start training.
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby ryanr » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:15 am

Let him be a pup and gain confidence and learn to explore his surroundings and use his nose. Keep it fun.

It might be hard to believe but if he knows his name, a recall command and whoa by the end of his first year that's plenty. In their first year I spend more time getting my dogs exposure to the woods, water and around town than I do a lot of formal training beyond those basics. Althoufh I had her out hunting all the time I didn't shoot a bird for my current young dog until halfway thru her first season. I just kept quiet and let her learn and waited until she showed me she was ready for me to kill a bird for her... which of course I missed. :D
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby AverageGuy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:26 pm

Timoteov,

We could all type pages of stuff and it would not hold a candle to you purchasing and following that Perfect Start DVD I recommended.

It takes you through every comment posted here in much better detail than can be covered with short on line posts. It stresses not letting your pup catch birds, using lauchers, teaching Here, Whoa, introducing birds, gunfire, retrieving, heeling... The methods are demonstrated live on multiple puppies at different stages and temperaments. It would be invaluable to you and your pup to buy, study and follow it.
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Re: Introducing pup to quail

Postby hunter94 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:38 pm

Training With Mo: How Maurice Lindley Trains Pointing Dogs......another top notch resource if you can't find the DVD.
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