Dusty The DL

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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:55 am

Lots of ways to go at this but maybe use smaller dummies than the standard ones. Mostly you might try trading a retrieve (initially toys) for a piece of kibble or, better yet, a 1/4 - 1/2" cube of cheese. Transition to dummies after he demonstrates (and knows) that bringing back whatever you throw will get him a reward. Only do it a few times in a row and then only a few times per day. Once ingrained you can remove the reward.

Parenthetically, I say "yes" whenever the dog starts back with the toy or dummy and then I produce the treat immediately. The dog learns that "yes" means he's going to get a treat and this becomes helpful whenever you're rewarding for a job well done. The "yes" marks the exact behavior you want the dog to remember as to what produced the reward. Waiting too long to say "yes" gets you all srots of crazy behaviors. If the dog "whoas" at a distance you say "yes" as soon as he stops even though the reward can come a minute later. Best to look at MIchael Ellis's introductory remarks to reward based training on the web.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:53 am

Highlander,

In the past I used some of the approaches posted here relative to gun acclimation. With bold dogs it worked out fine. When you run into the wrong dog however it can be a problem. The Perfect Gun Acclimation DVD I recommended has an importantly different approach which I used on my last puppy and will use on any others to follow. It is a safer way and it produced an extremely positive association between gunfire and birds in my current pup.

Few subjects have as many harmful suggestions in the world of dog training as does gun acclimation in my observation. Perfection Kennel has a FB page where they have posted many live training sessions including numerous ones where they are working with gun acclimation on new dogs and dogs which have already been rendered gun shy. Free for the viewing.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:17 am

Bruce Schwartz

Thank you for the replay.
I did use a small canvas bumper with black and white wings on it. It's around 8" long and 2.5" wide. I have a bigger version of it too but have not used it yet.

I started using kibbels but I was holding it in my hand as she run to me, so eventually she started dropping the bumper 2 feet away and rushing into my fist to get the kibbel. Then I stopped giving her kibbels as I did not wont her to keep dropping a bumper before me.
This could be the root cause she stopped bringing the bumpers but not the toys.

I will incorporate "yes" in the training and will try to reword her with a kibble ones she brings her toy in right in my hand and than I'll try to switch back to bumpers.

I will look up MIchael Ellis's videos.


AverageGuy

The video you recommend is on my list and as soon as the holidays are done I'll get on that.
This is a piacular moment in gundog's life and I don't want to mess it up.

One question I have to you.
You made a feather bumper for Tess. How did it go?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23485&start=45

I have pheasant feathers and I was thinking to make a similar bumper but since Dusty has some retrieving issues maybe I need just wait until I fix that problem?
and once she gets it correct start transitioning to the feather?

Thank you.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:18 am

Highlander: they don't get the kibble until they've dropped the toy or bumper in your hand (and after the command "drop" or "give"). It might take a few times but if they drop it before they get to you then you should ignore them until they pick it up again and bring it all the way. If they drop it on the floor you should move back a few paces and give the fetch command and just stare at them until they realize what's needed to get the food. The kibble stays in your pocket or a small pouch around your neck so you aren't giving it until you get the desired response out of them. They are crafty so timing and being deliberate is important. Maybe go back through the toy routine and then move to dummy. It's a process.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:01 pm

Bruce Schwartz

Sir, your method has worked out well. She is still greedy with some bumpers and dead beards but eventually comes to me. Apparently her sister is just lake that too.
She started teething so from now on I'll keep retrieving lessons even shorter.
-------

Update
Things are moving quite fast. I am in a full mode of preparation.
After the New Year I started introduction her with wild bird and tracking... and gun shot

First I started with planted chukars. To my surprise they keep in the same spot thus allowing dog to be steady on point.
In the first search I let her to sniff a feather or two and then set her on search. She was charged and exited. She sniffed the bird form a distance, but moved towards it carelessly and bumped the bird.
Second time was a better search that ended up with a semi-point and flush. I was able to see where the bird landed and had her move to that direction. She found the bird, but got exited and flushed it and chased the bird.
This is was good lesson for her. Move = flush.
I took a tree days of brake.

Next session was a way way better.
I planted chukars and waited 30mn and let her to search... and she found and pointed right away.
From this point on she has pointed every bird she has found (except one bird because I brought her in downwind), has kept steady on point and let me kick out the bird. This when I shot the blank.22 and it went well.

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In this picture she had pointed this bird 5 minutes before and I flushed it. The bird flew into this spot and got stocked into the grass. I was able to pick up the bird over her point.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:20 pm

My next step was to bring a new bird, the bobwhite, in the equation and... it was a mistake in my expariance. The bird is won't hold as good as chukar, which makes it harder for a pup that started pointing a few days back. They wont stick around and fly away almost as soon as the pup smells the bird and is about to point. She was only able to find and pin two birds out of five birds.

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I will get back to the bobwhite when she has more developed point and she more ready to do long searches.
I don't wind her pointing to deteriorate like it happened with my Irish Setter when I used quails. I'll stick with chukars since they keep in the spot and naturally fly out well.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Attidog » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:40 pm

Sounding good!
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Drahthaar1108 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:13 pm

Looking good. Forrest
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby SMAbby » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:01 pm

Nice
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:10 pm

Dusty is getting bigger and is advancing well.
I have signed her up for a VJP in late Aprille in Wisconsin.
I am preparing her almost everyday, except the time I had her resting for a health related issue, but I'll write about it later.
So far the search and pointing is becoming really good. She has increased the distance between the point and the bird.
She keeps safely away from the bird but enough to hold them pinned. So far she has never broken the point.

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I have used a tame rabbit for tracking and a scent drag. So far so good. She still keeps quartering on scent if I don't keep her on leash, but it's slowly getting better.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:26 am

Only about 10 days left for her first test (VJP).
Preparing almost every morning and if time allows every evening.
The field portion I think is in a good shape. Her search is wide, brisk, and concentrated. Her pointing changed, now it's almost squatting to the ground.
She points from a good distance, waits for me. Sometimes as I am getting to her she relocates and gets closer to a bird.

At the moment I mostly concentrate on tracking and cooperation.
Tracking is something very exiting for both of us. She has recovered crippled birds from unimaginable dense bush.

Once I was working her on planted quail. She pointed the bird and I flashed it, but the bird flew right into a big thorny bush. I relocated her on the bird, she pointed it again but then I saw the bird was running away and then it just vanished in the vegetation. I sent her after. She kept tracking the bird, but it seemed to me that he bird was lost. Be she kept working on the tracking, crowing under the terrible bushes and slowly worked her way to a small river, roughly 30-40 feet long. I was like there is no way the quail could flew across that river. But she kept sniffing in the ground and also was trying to catch a wind coming across from the river... and all over sudden she jumped in the river, swam across, climbed up the river backs and despaired in bushes. After about 3-5 minutes I see her crawling out from a bush in a different spot, holding the live bird in the mouth. She jumped in the river, swam back and brought me the bird, though didn't quite want to give it up very easy. :D
There is no way my Pointer or Setter could do anything like that.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:17 am

Well... We did it! We passed a VJP test with a score of 62 at 6 month old.

It was a quite day. As a first time Vdog handler I got good feedback for the future development of my dog. She was the youngest of all the dogs presented.
I did make some mistakes for which our scores in the tracking area of the test went down, but generally her performance was good, in some areas even very very good.
Track 7 (x2)
Use of Nose 9 (x2)
Search 10
Pointing 10
Cooperation 10

The first thing we did was search, in which she excelled.
She run fast, methodical with an excellent pattern yet she kept eye on me and changed the directions, per the request of judges, upon my command. She did not leave a spot without checking and made good use of the wind. She could have gotten a 11 but I overhandled her according to one the judges and gave too much of commands. Had I kept my mouth shut her search would have appeared more independent.
Even with this her search was one of the best of the dogs, apart from a year old DK, who also got a 10, and whose owner is a judge.

Her pointing also was very good. The first one was a weird one. She pointed at from a relatively close distance and the bird, wet and heavy on eggs, run straight into her and she caught the bird right from the point. For the second bird she pointed it form a good distance and stood solid until I got there, waited for a minute and picked up her. That was enough for them to see her pointing so we left the field.

After the field we went to a different site for rabbits The tracking working was a bit disappointment for me.
We were the last ones and by that time it got hot. The combination of only few encounter with live rabbits in her training, the hot whether and maybe a luck, she didn't quit fallow the rabbit track as passionately and determined as expected. She abounded the track a few times, looped big and wanted to search it like it was a bird. Also she would come back and check up on me and then go back to search. This is not what tracking must be. The judgment was 100% accurate... and we got 7. I felt a bit bad because I spent time training her in tracking using rabbit scents and a dead tame rabbit drags.. and I have seen her tracking dummies and crippled birds quite good. But at that moment she did what she did and we got what we got.
Because of this her use of nose also was scored 9.

Her cooperation was very good so we got 10. Her obedience was marked as very good as well.

She was THE calmest pup of all the dogs. Neve made a sound in the crate or sitting next to me. She patiently waited her turns. But as soon as I released her for search she gave it with full energy and passion. One of judge noted her switch when we were about to start the search.
This something I only apricated it when I saw it next to other dog.

The day and the whole event was amazing. A huge thank you goes to DL-GNA and VDD-GNA. I didn't know how much work it was to set up a test, find a place and judge the test. These people are great.

Now the next step is to prepare for a NAVHDA NA test this summer and HZP for this fall.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Sooty42 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:58 pm

Congrats, good looking dog!

I’m not familiar with the VJP test, did she not have to swim?
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:51 pm

Sooty42

No, swimming is not a part of the NA test in that system (JGHV).
That comes is the second test HZP and it includes a few types of water work.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Dmog » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:48 pm

Good Job! Keep up the good work!
You never have to tell a dog what time to be home, give them the keys, and they never ask for money.
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