range for chukar dog

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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby orhunter » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:17 pm

AG: "Some people trust their dogs and some don't." If my dog runs down wind of cover, I consider it searched. I also like keeping a dog close while covering unproductive ground for the reason you mentioned.

I like a dog's search pattern to be no pattern at all. It should be random yet with purpose.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby AverageGuy » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:55 pm

Bruce,

My last post was not directed towards anything you posted. You won't need 3 guesses as to who then ...

I have watched your training video starring Gypsy with interest numerous times. It is impressive and a better way for a Vdog is my take on it. I think it takes the right Vdog to work on handling and I think you agree with that. Some will take more than others. But I related to it as geared towards recovering downed game far more than directing a pointing dog's search for birds before the shot.

There are lots of semi trained but successful pointing dogs as you noted. Which supports the reality they do not benefit from a lot of handler interference. Mine have all been naturally responsive to hunting in the direction I walk, although some more than others.

Spud does not get out anywhere near 1000 yards so I cannot say first hand how things change at those yardages. I am factually noting that there are a lot of folks who hunt chukars with dogs that stretch out. As noted in the OP that started this thread. The guy who's FB post I mentioned is a very successful Chukar hunter and archery Elk too.

Spud handles birds better than any prior dog I have had (my old Dropper was probably equal). It allows me to drop the reins more. I believe how well a dog learns to handle birds factors into these types of discussions.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:20 pm

AG - just ventilating about the whistle thing. I hunted with a fellow from out here who had four GSPs on the ground at one time: with whistles constantly going off on their collars, and when one went on point the other three would converge on that one. It was hilarious! Plus he was hacking them with whistles and shouts and arm waves the rest of the time. Pretty funny. I get it.

Regarding range: KJ talks about 1500 yards - and that's just short of a mile. I've said I don't think chukar hold long enough for me to get to the dog (even if I could find it), but he says otherwise, and he's a dyed-in-the-wool chukar hunter! And, as you know, he has great dogs so there must be something to it. I listen to him.

The cool thing is that for those who wish to hunt chukar it's available, a lot of fun and solitude (no matter what kind of dog you have) and you'll get plenty tired doing it.

When you getting the new pup?
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby AverageGuy » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:26 pm

New puppy was supposed to fly in this past Sunday but turns out there was no qualified personnel at the airport to deal with animal shipping on a Sunday. Waiting to hear on reschedule but sure expected it to be this week.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:55 pm

well... we will want pictures of course
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby ForestDump » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:45 pm

The dog should apply itself to the ground and hunt intelligently. If it does that then it's a good hunting dog, the distance it puts between you is just a mix of natural range and training but it has nothing to do with its ability as a hunting dog.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby Tenderfoot » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:43 am

In regards to range, is that something a dog either naturally has or doesn’t have or can you train your dog to range further? If a breeder says dam and sire are 1-200 yd dogs are those pups 1-200 yd dogs as well?
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:22 am

I think Range is function of both nature and nurture with the former being dominate over the latter. Letting a puppy develop its own range by not interfering with it much while growing up will maximize it. I also think the type of cover the pup is run in has an influence. Planting birds at long distances in training fields will develop a pup to reach out and run to distant objectives some. Starting with genetics for the range you prefer is always for the best.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby orhunter » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:45 am

Having a confident dog helps and that starts they day after you pick them up. Early exposure that gives complete freedom to the pup is the only way to go. An older dog for the pup to keep up with is great motivation. This teaches the pup not to focus on you all the time. At some point the pup must focus on you but not till it's comfortable getting out there 40 yards or so all on its own. When we reach that point is the time to start working on cooperation and hand signals. Tracking exercises also help a pup focus on something other than the owner. That video AG posted of a pup searching for a single piece of food in the grass is a great example of a pup showing independence.

How we conduct ourselves around the house makes a difference. We don't want a pup to become dependent because it receives too much coddling and cuddling. Let/make the pup entertain its self a lot of the time. When you want some one on one time with the pup, go get it. Make these sessions short, a few minutes. If the pup comes to you, ignore it, don't become its slave.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby Tenderfoot » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:30 am

So is it safe to say so long as the dog is confident and has the prey drive it will essentially hunt as far out as you allow? I’m asking because I’m finding potentially good prospects from what little I know, and when I ask about parents I get..they have great prey drive, natural point etc. but are close working dogs and won’t range like your looking for.

I appreciate the honesty and am struggling to find the exact fit
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby orhunter » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:08 am

Acquiring a pup isn't an exact science. You get what you get and it may take some adapting on both your parts. Let the pup show you what it has before trying to change anything.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:49 am

Tenderfoot wrote:So is it safe to say so long as the dog is confident and has the prey drive it will essentially hunt as far out as you allow? I’m asking because I’m finding potentially good prospects from what little I know, and when I ask about parents I get..they have great prey drive, natural point etc. but are close working dogs and won’t range like your looking for.

I appreciate the honesty and am struggling to find the exact fit


No I think if the dog is confident and you allow it, the dog will hunt out as far as its experience AND its genetics drive the dog to hunt out. I would rate a pup from naturally close working parents as poor odds to end up being a big running dog no matter how you handle the dog. If you are still looking at GWPs look at the breeders out West as those favoring and breeding for bigger running GWPs.

If you like, take a look at what I posted in my first post in this thread. There is a lot more to a dog's overall effectiveness than its absolute range, but I do like a dog which will open up in open country as there is far more country than birds in it. I have seen quite a few big running dogs that were just running instead of hunting effectively. Conversely I like a dog which has the brains and cooperation to tighten up in heavy cover without me having to hack on the dog. Some big running dogs really struggle to do that.

Dogs which are always hunting and hunting smart are the ones which find the most birds. I have seen a lot of very effective dogs run what I would call a medium range and that is what I would characterize all of my GWPs as in terms of range. How well a dog handles the birds it finds, its use of wind/nose, drive to never stop hunting and ground pattern are all far more important than absolute range.
Last edited by AverageGuy on Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:02 am

It is said that you can reduce the range easier than you can extend it. For instance, I've seen some who advocate hiding from the dog if it gets too far out - making it insecure and working closer as a result. Too much hacking to control quartering is another gripe I've heard.

As far as extending range in my experience it helps for the dog to have a passion for hunting and to know what you're out there doing. I've several dogs who have really extended their range as they aged because they knew birds were out here somewhere (e.g. for chukar or sharptails) and were determined to find them. Also, I've heard hunting with a dog who's range is greater than your dog's is helpful.

Mostly, I think it's genetics and how many finger prints you leave on your pup. There's really nothing wrong with a closer working dog in most hunting situations though. I can think of several dogs who would continually blow through cover when I know they didn't do a thorough job - that's more annoying than a dog that does a good job in close.

Depending on what game you expect to hunt I'd go with your breeder's recommendations.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby Tenderfoot » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:41 am

Appreciate the feedback. I think I’m overthinking it and looking for a “unicorn” sometimes.
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Re: range for chukar dog

Postby Highlander » Wed May 06, 2020 10:21 am

I saw this cool video on Meateater.
I am not trying to be harsh on the people in the video or Meateater general, which I like and respect, but is this dog in the video actually doing anything? is this how a bird dog should perform in these kind of environment?

https://youtu.be/-3kbVDL1vhY

Maybe he is not an experienced dog.
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