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Stretch wrote:A couple of guys I hunt with have drahthaar and they say my dog doesn’t have near the drive there’s do. My Griffon is picking up everything they miss and getting just as many points if not more and not bumping birds nearly as many birds. And when it comes to tracking my Griff will slow down and is not overrunning his nose. So how can they say there dog has more drive because it hunts faster and ranges more.
orhunter wrote:Your pup's NA score might have indicated more drive had you gotten a 3 (or a 2) in cooperation. A dog with a bunch of prey drive isn't always the most cooperative. The dog's range may be another indication of prey drive. It's more about the individual dog than breed. My last Griff would possibly have run circles around a lot of Drahthaars. Prey drive has nothing to do with the number of birds found. It's more about the effort a dog puts into the search when there are no birds to be found. This is where training can mess up a good search if a dog gets used to finding birds every time it hits the ground.
Urban_Redneck wrote:Excuses for poor test scores are like .... everyone has one.
Stretch wrote:A couple of guys I hunt with have drahthaar and they say my dog doesn’t have near the drive there’s do. With that being said I just got 112 score on NA test and neither of them got got a prize 1. But they are judging drive by the speed there dog hunts and by the ranging they do. To me that isn’t so much drive as it is personality and difference in breed and dog. My Griffon is picking up everything they miss and getting just as many points if not more and not bumping birds nearly as many birds. And when it comes to tracking my Griff will slow down and is not overrunning his nose. So how can they say there dog has more drive because it hunts faster and ranges more. With that all being said how do you judge how much drive a dog has? To me a dog with drive is one that’s is completely wore out but won’t quit unless you make him or her quit.
AverageGuy wrote:Some areas of Hunt Tests are more subjective than others.
Retrieve of shot bird - the dog either does it or it doesn't. Same with Steadiness, Heeling, Drag/Retrieve.
Search, Desire to Work, Cooperation, is where more subjectivity comes into play in the Judging is my observation, and it most certainly varies between Judging teams.
I have read the AIMS document many times, it is very well done and excellent information. I have seen slow plodding dogs in UTs scored down in Desire to Work and Search and agreed it with. I think a dog working in that manner is not going to produce as much game as a dog which is more active and focused on finding game.
I have seen numerous dogs which ran to be running and were not as effective as dogs that were hunting vs running. But I do tend to equate some degree of speed and willingness to range out according to cover conditions with prey drive. I agree that a dog continuing to hunt hard under conditions where not alot of game is being found is a key element of prey drive.
orhunter wrote:JONOV:
That's just it. Hard to put a finger on how prey drive is demonstrated. Everyone has a different take on what it is.
Pointer vs Griff... That Griff I brought out from Wisconsin back in '09 was paired with a pointer for a day of Chukar hunting, both wearing tracking collars. At the end of the day when distance covered was compared, the Griff had covered more ground than the pointer. So in a sense, you're right. Range in its self may not be a true indication of prey drive. But what a dog does once it gets out there is. How determined the dog is to produce birds. Is the dog hunting or just running. The powers of observation, knowing what you're seeing is the key.
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