Hips

[roosterbrews]

Just checking what is the preferred method of testing to clear hips for breeding? My PP has done very well in testing and a great hunter so I thought I would take the next step. He is 3 1/2 now is it too late?

[JASmith]

There are two methods, Penn Hip and OFA. OFA is more common and cheaper. Whichever your vet will do will fit the bill.

[orhunter]

Not too late. Penn-HIP gives you a number, a precise rating. OFA gives a rating that is far less accurate.

[GRIFF MAN]

[quote="orhunter"]Not too late. Penn-HIP gives you a number, a precise rating. OFA gives a rating that is far less accurate.[/quote


???? Explain your thoughts on this. Please.

[orhunter]

Let's say a dog is rated fair by OFA. We have no idea if it's the low end or the high end of the rating. Some folks would breed with such a rating but if it's the high (loose) end of the range, we wouldn't, but we don't know where the dog actually fits.

[Misskiwi67]

Or just decide if the dog is rated fair, you won't breed. Or you will only breed to a dog with excellent hips.

There's no perfect system. In an ideal world the dog would be rated Pennhip at the ideal age. I believe Pennhip is so specific that its value decreases in older dogs. I'm not 100% sure if I'm misremembering though...

[Doc E]

OFA Excellent, Good and Fair are all considered to be in the "Normal" range.

.

[Densa44]

Penn Hip costs money and it may eliminate your dog as a breeder, which is the idea. We have turned down dogs who had a Penn hip less than the median.

Do you have a request from a bitch owner to breed to your dog?

For example to breed to our bitches, a dog needs a UT 204 score, Penn hips above the median and no health or behavior problems noted by NAVHDA on his pedigree, and no common relatives with our dog.

By using these criteria we have bred some excellent pups.

Good luck.

[GRIFF MAN]

Penn Hip costs money and it may eliminate your dog as a breeder, which is the idea. We have turned down dogs who had a Penn hip less than the median.

Do you have a request from a bitch owner to breed to your dog?

For example to breed to our bitches, a dog needs a UT 204 score, Penn hips above the median and no health or behavior problems noted by NAVHDA on his pedigree, and no common relatives with our dog.

By using these criteria we have bred some excellent pups.

Good luck.

I get the rest, most everyone is doing that. I have a question with the 204...lots of good dogs that are breed worthy may not have the training or owner to achieve a 204....
I have seen VC dogs that I would not own or that had hard time pointing a woodcock....Do you only rely on scores as the basis for your breeding program?
If a dog gets a 200 your not using him as a stud ??


Griffman

[orhunter]

Gotta be a misprint....? A good huntin' dog probably won't get a 4 in cooperation....so not a 204 but a huntin' machine.

[Densa44]

We are on to a bit different topic, I'm not sure if this is the place to discuss NAVHDA scores, but I will say that the comments are correct. The rub is for the puppy customer, just one person amoung the 400 million or so that make up our 2 countries, what information is available to him when he is choosing a puppy? Just the NAVHDA.

Yes I know for sure that there are trainers that can make a VC out of just about any dog, so your suspicions are right I personally have additional criteria.

[hicntry]

I never had my dogs hips tested in thirty years and never had hip problems. Then again, I wasn't being dictated to by a club. Two dogs rated excellent can produce dysplastic dogs. Tells people that testing isn't the answer.

[Doc E]

I don't know about other breeds, but in Labs, breeding Excellent x Excellent results in a 3.5% chance of dysplasia.

.

[Calvinator]

Lots of emphasis is placed on hip ratings. Sometimes some people put too much emphasis. Literature suggests that pups are typically born with normal hips. Environmental and nutritional factors play a significant role in muscular skeletal development.
I use the PennHip method as I feel the info provided is more relevant.
I seen dogs with ok scores produce pups with great scores. I've also seen dogs with great scores produce pups with ok scores. As a breeder, you take the info you have, make the best choices and move forward. Sometimes to move forward, you may take a set or two backwards.
FYI: you don't see field trial pointers or greyhounds with hip scores. If they can't run and win, they don't get bred.

Calvin

[Calvinator]

Densa44

[quote]For example to breed to our bitches, a dog needs a UT 204 score, Penn hips above the median and no health or behavior problems noted by NAVHDA on his pedigree, and no common relatives with our dog.
/quote]

I'm curious to know how far back into the pedigree you go looking at "no common relatives"? Your stud of choice shares many common relatives within his own pedigree.

Calvin