How many bones is too many?

General Sporting Dog Discussion

Moderator: Moderator Pack

How many bones is too many?

Postby mastercaster » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:02 am

This will likely only apply to those who live in the Pacific Northwest where we have salmon returning to their home rivers to spawn. I've had Sako on a couple of these rivers where there's a lot of chum salmon skeletal remains on the shore while out hunting waterfowl. There's no flesh left on the bones because they're too old so there's no inclination at all for the dog to roll in them,,,,,, there's just the spine, rib bones, and jaw left behind.

In any event, Sako went to town on them on both occasions chewing and crunching them down like potato chips while we were setting up and taking down the blind and gathering decoys. I kept thinking it might affect her digestive system the next day but there were no changes either time. Her breath smelled a tad fishy today after yesterday's hunt, though. My buddy's DD was eating them like there was no tomorrow, as well.

Has anybody had a dog that had any issues eating fish carcass bones before?
mastercaster
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby Urban_Redneck » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:56 am

Good news is dogs can digest raw bones and they are great source of nutrients. Potential bad news is there is a parasite common in Pacific salmon that can harm your dog. I don't know if the parasite would be present on rotted frames. I suppose it would be worth a call to a state fisheries biologist.
Urban_Redneck
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:08 am
Location: NE PA

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby mastercaster » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:55 am

Urban_Redneck wrote:Good news is dogs can digest raw bones and they are great source of nutrients. Potential bad news is there is a parasite common in Pacific salmon that can harm your dog. I don't know if the parasite would be present on rotted frames. I suppose it would be worth a call to a state fisheries biologist.


That was my main concern but I have a hunch the parasite lives only in the flesh of salmon,,,,,and as I mentioned, there is no flesh left on these spines. I guess I'll have to do some research or give a fishery bio a call.
mastercaster
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby flitecontrol » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:02 am

I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
flitecontrol
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:16 am
Location: Monroe, LA

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby orhunter » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:16 pm

Mastercaster: Your dog will almost certainly get sick so keep an eye on him. Sometimes you can find Tetracycling at pet stores in the fish section or maybe you can get your personal doctor to write you a script. If you go to a veterinarian, they’ll charge you for an office visit which you don’t need. When the pooch starts showing symptoms, lethargy, stop eating and drinking, maybe puking, shows signs of abdominal pain, start giving the Tet. I’ve dealt with this several times and it’s no big deal if you stay on top of it and treat within a day or two of the dog showing symptoms. You can help the dog a lot by using a large eye dropper to get it to swallow water. The dog will show signs of improvement after 24 hours and will start eating again within a couple of days. As long as you’re getting some water and meds in him, he’ll be fine. You might want to put the dog on home made food, meat and brown rice, low Calcium diet till he’s off the meds. Calcium bonds to the Tet and it becomes less effective.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7767
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby mastercaster » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:50 pm

orhunter wrote:Mastercaster: Your dog will almost certainly get sick so keep an eye on him. Sometimes you can find Tetracycling at pet stores in the fish section or maybe you can get your personal doctor to write you a script. If you go to a veterinarian, they’ll charge you for an office visit which you don’t need. When the pooch starts showing symptoms, lethargy, stop eating and drinking, maybe puking, shows signs of abdominal pain, start giving the Tet. I’ve dealt with this several times and it’s no big deal if you stay on top of it and treat within a day or two of the dog showing symptoms. You can help the dog a lot by using a large eye dropper to get it to swallow water. The dog will show signs of improvement after 24 hours and will start eating again within a couple of days. As long as you’re getting some water and meds in him, he’ll be fine. You might want to put the dog on home made food, meat and brown rice, low Calcium diet till he’s off the meds. Calcium bonds to the Tet and it becomes less effective.


She's been fine so far. She ate the salmon bones on Monday about noon. She didn't eat any salmon flesh becaus it was all decomposed months ago,,,,only bones left behind on the shoreline. She's still plowing through her food, drinking lots of water, still has all her get up and go, and her stool is normal. How long do you figure it takes before any of these symptoms occur?
mastercaster
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby ryanr » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:26 pm

I don't know about salmon bones but my damn dogs crunch on pheasant bones they find decaying in the field.
Schwarzwald's Hazel, NA 105 Prize 2
Quade vom Buffeltaler, NA 112 Prize 1
ryanr
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2345
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:54 pm
Location: Lehighton, PA

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby orhunter » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:22 pm

I had a Labrador get sick after eating trout that had spent several days decomposing in the ground and maybe two years sitting in some guy's freezer. My Griff got sick from eating trout leftovers from Ospreys that had baked in the sun for who knows how long. It was like she was crunching potato chips. If yer dog can go a week, it's probably out of the woods. 10 days for sure.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7767
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby mastercaster » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:55 pm

orhunter wrote:I had a Labrador get sick after eating trout that had spent several days decomposing in the ground and maybe two years sitting in some guy's freezer. My Griff got sick from eating trout leftovers from Ospreys that had baked in the sun for who knows how long. It was like she was crunching potato chips. If yer dog can go a week, it's probably out of the woods. 10 days for sure.


Just got off the phone with the receptionist who talked to the vet about my situation. She said the salmon poisoning disease that dogs can get is from the parasites in the flesh and digestive organs. As far as I could tell the only remnants the dogs were able to find were salmon bones,,,,, many of the pieces were individual vertebrae. Don't think any of the pieces would be large enough to cause a blockage of any sort the way she was chewing them down. Just the same, I'll be keeping a watchful eye.

From what I've found out is that salmon poisoning disease is only a problem with fish that are anadromous (live their adult life in the ocean and come back to rivers to spawn). Were those trout from lakes that your dog got into,,,,or rivers? Supposedly the trout from lakes won't give the dog the disease. Maybe your dog was sick because the flesh was just badly decayed and full of bacteria/fly larvae??
mastercaster
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby orhunter » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:00 pm

Virtually every stream that runs into the Pacific ocean within the affected area has the disease present. The fish scraps my Griff got hold of were hatchery origin Rainbows, Hagg Lake, Washington County, OR. I thought the trout the guy gave me were from a lake in Canada? I don't think the map they show on-line can be considered accurate beyond a reasonable doubt. Global warming will allow the disease to move northward as time passes. What the receptionist told you is correct about what parts of the fish contain the organism. A lot of folks think it's the blood but the blood gets contaminated when the fish is cleaned and the blood comes in contact with other tissue. By its self, blood isn't a problem. I'm leaning toward your dog's exposure was extremely slight and this would increase the gestation period or your dog's own resistance would be enough to fight it off. Generally, when dogs get exposed, it's a pretty high dose and any defense they may have is useless. Something else. The disease isn't caused by a single organism, there are a few different strains. The most common one is the worst. After exposure and treatment, it is said the dog will become immune. That doesn't cover every strain, only the one the dog was exposed to. We have a house in Astoria and I'm a salmon fisherman and I'd also take the dog on lots of walks that included the local fish cleaning station where she would snatch up whatever tidbit she could find. I just couldn't worry about it all the time. Every summer her poop would get a little runny because she'd pick up one of the strains she wasn't immune to. Two or three doses of Tet. and she'd be back to normal.

Don't lose any sleep over this, it's not as terrible as some may want you to believe. You know enough at this point, it should never be a problem. Just being aware is all that's needed.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7767
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby mastercaster » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:43 pm

After getting your advice on what to do, I think it might be a good idea to always have some tetracycline on hand. Will have to see where I can find some. I am seeing my doctor tomorrow ,,,,,,maybe I'll ask him. How do you figure out how much to give your griff when it needed it?
mastercaster
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: How many bones is too many?

Postby orhunter » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:24 am

I gave 250 mg, twice a day per Vet. instructions. Tell your Dr. what it's for. He may not give it to you if he thinks you will be taking it. Better look into how to store it. I've heard it doesn't keep well but don't know what that really means. Don't give it to your dog is it isn't actually sick and you have a good idea what the problem is. A lot of people go into panic mode around here when their dog gets into salmon and there really isn't any need for it. Vets will say an infected dog needs all sorts of stuff that isn't necessary. If the dog hasn't had water in three or four days, yea it'll need an IV but that's because the owner hasn't been on top of things. Not the dog's fault. Don't worry, have a beer.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7767
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JTracyII and 12 guests