Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby Stretch » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:23 pm

I have dogs for running coyotes and they don’t slow down they run to catch. But coyotes are way smarter than a person gives them credit for and are more elusive than fast. I don’t think dogs are slowing down so much as they can only run as fast as they can track. So if the smelling isn’t very good dogs can’t run that fast. Unless it’s running by sight.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby orhunter » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:32 pm

STait: Don't have any photos like yours. Only had one real opportunity to get a good shot but no camera. Both Griffs were chasing a coyote and Ellie started out in the rear. They went out of sight behind a hill but then popped into view above my position. Ellie had passed the other dog and was about ten yards behind the Coyote and I thought, OH $#!%, she's going to catch that thing!!! Luckily the Coyote made it to the thick brush and the chase soon ended. That little girl could fly. I've watched her run full tilt toward a barb wire fence when hunting and she knew it wasn't smart to go through so she'd go over. Running through sage was the same. Easier to go over than around. Where I Chukar hunted for several years, it was about a five mile walk to get out where the hunting was good. Lots of those days we went to various places just to check them out and maybe get a bird or two before hitting the good stuff. Always wanted to make a full day of it. The short days involved getting a limit before getting to the good stuff and walking maybe 8 miles but we'd be back to the truck before noon instead of 4:30. Really enjoyed those long hunts, walking back to the truck, air getting cold as the sun goes down, ice on the puddles starting to form again. Dang that was nice.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby Meridiandave » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:34 pm

orhunter wrote:15 miles a day for a Chukar hunting dog is hardly a workout. I'd do close to that myself on the average day. Never put a Garmin on my Griff but she had to be doing well over 40 a lot of those days when she was young. She never did anything slow.


From a guy who has a gps on every run and everyone of his friends has a gps on every run. You are correct 15 is an average day or even short day. I see a lot of 20 mile runs for the dog. The dog usually does 3 to 4 miles to 1 per person.

I am calling bull$#*! on 40 miles and 15 for you. I know some dudes who are absolute mountain goats that don't do that and they are running far ranging dogs. The most miles we have seen on a dog gps is just under 30.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby hicntry » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:32 pm

Here are a few pics of the dogs and how similar they are built. Most of these guys are about 29" rather than the standard 23". They could get right on a coyote on favorable ground , but, the coyotes had to resort to zigging and zagging because they didn't have any more gears to pick up. These dogs couldn't make the sharp turns like a 30 lb coyote when they are going full steam.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... 44copy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... G_3491.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... nter10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... G_3480.jpg
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby orhunter » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:19 pm

When I'm out there 7 or 8 hours, that's only 2 mph. The ground is relatively flat with a single short grade less than half a mile long with any serious elevation change. I'm not climbing up out of the Deschutes canyon to get to the top, I drive and hunt down with maybe no more than 300 ft elevation change. When hunting over around Richland, The days are shorter and steeper but probably going close to 10 or 12 miles. When I get up on top, I can't tell where I parked the truck it's so far away and so far down. I don't walk anywhere close to a straight line to get there or get back. Probably have a minimum of 800 ft. elevation change.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby orhunter » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:23 pm

A friend who I sold a male Griff to put a gps on the dog and one on an EP another fellow had for the days hunt. At the end, the guys went 6 miles, the Griff went around 24 miles and the EP 23.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby STait » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:27 pm

Orhunter, I hunt a lot of evenings leaving home at like 1:00-2:00 with the sun going at 5:30-6:00 so many of my hunts are 2 1/2 hours to 4 hours long. Plus, I’ve got 5 dogs so have to switch them up when I can. I don’t hunt a lot of Saturday’s because I don’t want to run into other hunters even though most places I hunt get very little pressure. I may be doing some longer hunts this year because I’m going to scout some areas closer to home.

Btw, in my photos my dogs are just hunting, not chasing anything. That’s another gear.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby STait » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:30 pm

Don, 29” at the withers makes for some long legs and stride. Good for eating up ground.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby jarbo03 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:19 pm

I have had several days where according to GPS i covered 15 miles or more, no telling how many the dog put in.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby orhunter » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:01 pm

STait: My shortest hunting commute is around 3 hours actual drive time. Nothing close to home except for a few Mountain Quail and maybe a grouse if you see one sitting in the road.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby STait » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:15 pm

I meant to say “scout some areas further from home”.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby Stretch » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:04 am

If you want to see impressive numbers on gps strap a collar on a coyote hound when the running is good. They will hit 40 miles and average around 10mph doing it.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby Meridiandave » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:27 am

orhunter wrote:A friend who I sold a male Griff to put a gps on the dog and one on an EP another fellow had for the days hunt. At the end, the guys went 6 miles, the Griff went around 24 miles and the EP 23.



I have actually had the same experience.
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby hicntry » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:56 pm

STait wrote:Don, 29” at the withers makes for some long legs and stride. Good for eating up ground.



Steve, they did pretty good at eating mup the ground, but, on a sight race sprinting they couldn't make the tight turns. That is why multiple sight hounds are used. This first pic is Geronimo at 85lbs the second one is one of his offspring crossed to a staghound.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... an011r.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... crossr.jpg
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Re: Should dogs outside the standard be bred?

Postby STait » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:54 pm

hicntry wrote:
STait wrote:Don, 29” at the withers makes for some long legs and stride. Good for eating up ground.



Steve, they did pretty good at eating mup the ground, but, on a sight race sprinting they couldn't make the tight turns. That is why multiple sight hounds are used. This first pic is Geronimo at 85lbs the second one is one of his offspring crossed to a staghound.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... an011r.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... crossr.jpg


Interesting! So this begs the question, why did you not just breed lurchers, sighthounds?? My guess is a hybrid is what you were really after in the long run?
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