The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby PL_Guy » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:49 am

GONEHUNTIN' wrote:
jfwhit wrote:And Delmar has said it makes a distinct noise that is mostly heard by the dog.


Delmar is a good salesman. The chain choke collar makes a distinct sound heard by the dog. Think about these things.

+1 :)

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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby ryanr » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:41 pm

I have one as well as a pinch collar. I.like them both but I will say I've used the pinch collar more. I used the Wonder Lead on my older dog when he was really fighting me over the pinch collar and we weren't getting much accomplished. The wonder lead got him going in the right direction and then he became more willing to accept the linch collar as well. My younger dog, she's only had the pinch collar thus far but I might actually put her on the wonder lead this weekend just because. She's more cooperative by nature so she took to the pinch collar easily.
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby jfwhit » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:56 pm

GONEHUNTIN' wrote:
jfwhit wrote:And Delmar has said it makes a distinct noise that is mostly heard by the dog.


Delmar is a good salesman. The chain choke collar makes a distinct sound heard by the dog. Think about these things.



Umm. The Wonder Lead is way different than a chock chain in my opinion. I have used choke chains for years and never really liked them. The stiffness of the lead is a game changer. The dog instantly reacts and so does the lead. I just have to barely hond on to the rope. Just my opinion. My chains are never used anymore.
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby CZfan107 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:47 pm

I just bought the WL for my 4 Month Pudelpointer. Not working so good still pulls when i make a 180* he follows but continues to pull every time i change direction. He Maybe to young still adventurous and gets distracted easily ?
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:58 am

CZ, I used a Marker word and treats when my pup maintained the proper position and when he focused his attention on me while teaching heel. I did this while also using a choke chain and later a wonder lead which gave him instant positive and negative feedback when he did things right and wrong.

I think the slow acceptance of PR based training in the gundog world has been PR zealots' notion that it must comprise 100% of the training. I experiment with a combination of both and think puppies are smart enough to learn through both when applied consistently.
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby mastercaster » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:02 am

AverageGuy wrote:CZ, I used a Marker word and treats when my pup maintained the proper position and when he focused his attention on me while teaching heel. I did this while also using a choke chain and later a wonder lead which gave him instant positive and negative feedback when he did things right and wrong.

I think the slow acceptance of PR based training in the gundog world has been PR zealots' notion that it must comprise 100% of the training. I experiment with a combination of both and think puppies are smart enough to learn through both when applied consistently.


Just out of curiousity, what was your marker word? Just started using the WL a few days ago but I've been going with the Silent Training for this and hoping the dog figures it out on her own. Certainly not opposed to using words, though.
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby ANick » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:44 am

MC,
This is a long but good video from Leerburg, I think AG had this one linked some time back? A bit more than just 'markers'..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe0-oqqoXvw
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:38 pm

The classic approach is using the clicker because with good timing it is fast and 100% consistent in sound. More so than our voice. But the downsides are a clicker ties up our hands which are often needed during training (trained retrieve for example), and a clicker cannot be heard at a distance whereas raising our voice can convey a marker word at a distance.

I started with a clicker, then moved to "X" marker word as short hand for "excellent". It is very short, consistent in sound and not commonly heard in conversation. I used the "X" marker during our close range OB work and it is as close to a clicker as a voice can be. Then I moved on to the standard "Good Boy" shouted at a distance when appropriate for our longer distance retrieving work.

I worked on my dog's ears yesterday and this morning and used some marker and treats to shape some less fussy behavior around letting me do what I need to do in that area.

When teaching Heel, I would mark and treat when my pup's head was at my knee. And I would mark and treat when he looked up at me, particularly when I turned. It was very effective in giving him a reason/reward to pay attention to me.
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby CZfan107 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:24 pm

Just wanted to train to walk not heel Guess i am using the wrong tool .
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby oregonwire » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:38 pm

When teaching 'heal' the pig rope is somewhat easier to use than a choke collar
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby Buck Dancer » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:46 pm

I bought one of these recently for my 16 week old pup that has started to get strong to the point where leash manners are important. It seemed to work fine but is kind of cumbersome to use. I had a pinch collar that I never used that cost about $5 and that seemed to work just as well and was much easier to use once on. I suppose the wonder leash could come in handy if you just want to slip a lead on a dog quickly without having to set up a pinch collar - ( I take them off after use them and need to struggle a squirming pup to put it back on).
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby JONOV » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:08 pm

I came back to this after thinking about how much easier life is if you teach heal when they're young and small enough to make it easier on you.

Currently working on leash manners with a foster GWP, and while she certainly can learn quickly, its a hassle to have to yank her around. I'm getting a wonder lead or a pinch collar.
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby Dmog » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:46 pm

JONOV wrote:I came back to this after thinking about how much easier life is if you teach heal when they're young and small enough to make it easier on you.

+1 and whoa is a lot easier to train if needed once healing at a young age is complete, so is "here". If done a certain way, the dog will come right into a heal for you when called and you can choose to release them to hunt again or have them walk in heel. I like "Perfect Start" and "Perfect Finish" training techniques.
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:17 pm

AverageGuy wrote:When teaching Heel, I would mark and treat when my pup's head was at my knee. And I would mark and treat when he looked up at me, particularly when I turned. It was very effective in giving him a reason/reward to pay attention to me.


Good advice. If you're considering using PR in your training the Leerburg website is the way to go. Michael Ellis is superb, but for lead work my wife suggests "Loose Leash Walking" by Tyler Muto (available through Leerburg). His dogs work well in high distraction environments and he finishes off teaching with the ecollar.
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Re: The Wonder Lead by Delmar Smith

Postby blue04 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:51 pm

In my opinion, the best way to teach "heel" and "whoa" is with two leads. One hooks to a standard flat collar, and the other in a half-hitch around the dog's flank.
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