Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby orhunter » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:47 pm

I treated for heart worm with Ivermectin regularly but I wasn’t going to pay the big bucks at the Vet office. It was my general parasite preventive, covers a lot of stuff. Someone told me it was good for ticks up to two weeks after a dose. Dunno if it’s true?
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby mastercaster » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:34 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
mastercaster wrote:
orhunter wrote:I clicked on Heartworm and it shows Oregon has it but I asked the local Vet. If he’s ever seen a case and he said, no. I get the feeling a lot of cases of the various diseases are picked up in other locations than where medical attention is administered. That kind of gives a false indication of where infections exist?





I believe in prevention. 1 in 100 will get acute renal failure that’s expensive and deadly. It really sucks when that dog skipped antibiotics and is dead 9 months later. Maybe only once in a lifetime experience for me (statistically rare) but once is enough.


I believe in the old saying that an oz. of prevention is worth a lb. of cure. I know there's ticks up here in BC that carry Lyme Disease because my buddy's daughter got bit by a tick while field dressing a deer, came down with the disease almost immediately, and is still fighting it almost two years later. She's very close to being recovered,,,,, but it has been a very tough fight.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:14 pm

orhunter wrote:I treated for heart worm with Ivermectin regularly but I wasn’t going to pay the big bucks at the Vet office. It was my general parasite preventive, covers a lot of stuff. Someone told me it was good for ticks up to two weeks after a dose. Dunno if it’s true?


Unfortunately, not true. Ticks are particularly difficult to kill and to my knowledge ivermectin has no efficacy.

Edit: there’s some efficacy, but 35% isn’t anything to consider worthwhile. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2 ... tick%20dog
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby flitecontrol » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:26 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
orhunter wrote:I treated for heart worm with Ivermectin regularly but I wasn’t going to pay the big bucks at the Vet office. It was my general parasite preventive, covers a lot of stuff. Someone told me it was good for ticks up to two weeks after a dose. Dunno if it’s true?


Unfortunately, not true. Ticks are particularly difficult to kill and to my knowledge ivermectin has no efficacy.

Edit: there’s some efficacy, but 35% isn’t anything to consider worthwhile. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2 ... tick%20dog


I think it is probably more true than not. I'm assuming that study was done with Ivermectin levels (.6ug/kg in the study) found in typical canine heartworm preventative medications. Those levels are used to ensure that the commercial product is safe for all breeds. Collie related breeds can be poisoned by relatively low levels of Ivermectin due to a genetic defect, while all other breeds tolerate much higher levels. Many dog owners orally administer .1 ml of 1% liquid Ivermectin per ten pounds of body weight to their dogs on a monthly basis. If my math is correct, this would be equivalent to about 222ug/kg, or over 370 times as much Ivermectin as used in the study. If .6ug/kg provides 35% control, how much would 370 times as much provide?
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:58 am

flitecontrol wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:
orhunter wrote:I treated for heart worm with Ivermectin regularly but I wasn’t going to pay the big bucks at the Vet office. It was my general parasite preventive, covers a lot of stuff. Someone told me it was good for ticks up to two weeks after a dose. Dunno if it’s true?


Unfortunately, not true. Ticks are particularly difficult to kill and to my knowledge ivermectin has no efficacy.

Edit: there’s some efficacy, but 35% isn’t anything to consider worthwhile. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2 ... tick%20dog


I think it is probably more true than not. I'm assuming that study was done with Ivermectin levels (.6ug/kg in the study) found in typical canine heartworm preventative medications. Those levels are used to ensure that the commercial product is safe for all breeds. Collie related breeds can be poisoned by relatively low levels of Ivermectin due to a genetic defect, while all other breeds tolerate much higher levels. Many dog owners orally administer .1 ml of 1% liquid Ivermectin per ten pounds of body weight to their dogs on a monthly basis. If my math is correct, this would be equivalent to about 222ug/kg, or over 370 times as much Ivermectin as used in the study. If .6ug/kg provides 35% control, how much would 370 times as much provide?


Tough to say without a study. I do know other avermectins have limited tick control. They work for the wimpy species but not the tougher species- which also happen to be the Lyme carrying species.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby flitecontrol » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:25 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Tough to say without a study. I do know other avermectins have limited tick control. They work for the wimpy species but not the tougher species- which also happen to be the Lyme carrying species.


Since the study you referenced was done in Portugal, with (I assume) ticks native to that area, I'm wondering if we can apply any of the conclusions to North American tick species.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby JONOV » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:48 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:As to cutting chews - medications can “settle “ while the chew dries... so it may not be mixed evenly.

YES!! To Lyme vaccines!! I see very good success with Lyme vaccine, and since switching to the new lymeCR vaccine 3 years ago have not seen a single vaccine failure.

Probably a stupid question...Why would you vaccinate if your dog is on a flea & tick regimen? (Nexguard or Advantix or whatever.)
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby mastercaster » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:55 pm

JONOV wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:As to cutting chews - medications can “settle “ while the chew dries... so it may not be mixed evenly.

YES!! To Lyme vaccines!! I see very good success with Lyme vaccine, and since switching to the new lymeCR vaccine 3 years ago have not seen a single vaccine failure.

Probably a stupid question...Why would you vaccinate if your dog is on a flea & tick regimen? (Nexguard or Advantix or whatever.)


My understanding is those medications (I use Bravecto) will kill a tick within 24 hrs. AFTER it has bitten your dog. That being said, once a dog has been bitten the dog could have the virus in its blood stream. The Lyme Disease vaccination prevents the disease from taking hold.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby orhunter » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:42 pm

Mastercaster: A tick is said to have to be attached for 36 to 48 hours before Lyme can be transmitted.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby mastercaster » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:12 pm

orhunter wrote:Mastercaster: A tick is said to have to be attached for 36 to 48 hours before Lyme can be transmitted.


I've heard that, as well, but I'm not so sure how accurate it is. A friend of mine and his daughter shot a deer one evening and field dressed it. The next morning his daughter woke up and felt some discomfort at her neck. They found a tick attached to her which they removed. It was only on their for 12-13 hours. She ended up getting a severe case of Lyme disease and she is just now starting to get better. She was on heavy medication for a year and a half, had to be off school during that time, and just felt bloody awful. I visited a couple of times as they live in another city and it was painful to see what a state she was in. If she is fully recovered by the fall it will have been two full years. That's their hope anyway. Hard to believe there's no vaccinations for people.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby orhunter » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:34 am

Mastercaster:

Was there a problem diagnosing Lyme so treatment was withheld? I can't imagine where a case was discovered quickly that treating it would take so long? Kinda strange. Like has been discussed, some Dr's don't know how to treat it because they've never dealt with it. Doxycycline is the first line of treatment and if Dr. used something else (I've hard of it) it may not have been a good choice?

The tick I had on me could have been there for two weeks before it was spotted. I had been feeling odd for over a week.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby mastercaster » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:47 am

orhunter wrote:Mastercaster:

Was there a problem diagnosing Lyme so treatment was withheld? I can't imagine where a case was discovered quickly that treating it would take so long? Kinda strange. Like has been discussed, some Dr's don't know how to treat it because they've never dealt with it. Doxycycline is the first line of treatment and if Dr. used something else (I've hard of it) it may not have been a good choice?

The tick I had on me could have been there for two weeks before it was spotted. I had been feeling odd for over a week.


Strange as it may seem, up here in Canada there's many doctors who feel Lyme disease does not even exist when it comes to people getting it. It's like people who don't believe in climate change. As far as I know, my friend's daughter started getting blood work done that very first day but IIRC it did take a bit of time to fully diagnose it and figure out the best way to treat it. Luckily, one of the so called experts in the field, worked directly with them, almost from the get go. Even though she was put on meds right away to the tune of 100s of pills per week they couldn't seem to knock it back. She was a mess for quite awhile. I think the doctors in the States who deal with this disease are a little more up on the curing of it,,,,,but that's just my take on it.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby orhunter » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:43 am

Mastercaster:

You bring up climate change. This is real and the consequences are far reaching. Our oceans are taking the biggest hit but you can see it affects medicine too. Adjust and adapt, hope for the best, expect the worst......or hide our heads in the sand.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby ryanr » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:55 am

orhunter wrote:Mastercaster: A tick is said to have to be attached for 36 to 48 hours before Lyme can be transmitted.


I was told 12 hours or longer.
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Re: Lyme disease vaccination, Bravecto, dosage

Postby mastercaster » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:52 pm

orhunter wrote:Mastercaster:

You bring up climate change. This is real and the consequences are far reaching. Our oceans are taking the biggest hit but you can see it affects medicine too. Adjust and adapt, hope for the best, expect the worst......or hide our heads in the sand.


Aint that the truth! Mother Nature always bats last.
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