DDS are they good markers?

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DDS are they good markers?

Postby 30024grand » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:27 pm

I have talked to a few people who implied
That drauhaars are not very good markers.
Is that the general concensus or not?
I am just curious if that is true is it simply
because the versatile guys don't show
Them enough different types of marking
Concepts. I am told they love to retrieve
And they have strong drive what is the reason
If they have good eyes and the rest of the package what
Is the issue?
A well trained retriever will have seen several 1000 marks
By the time they are 2 yrs old.
Just curious about this.

Thanks
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:55 pm

Some are better than others. I've heard some people say they are every bit as good as a lab with good experience.

One of my dogs is MUCH better than the other on doves and long sailing pheasant. I can't compare to a lab, I didn't start Duck hunting until after I had DDs.
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:40 am

I think your comment that a well trained retriever will have seen 1000s of marks by the age of 2 is key. My experience is with GWPs. I think that with similar levels of experience they do a very good job of marking within 100 yards, and with experience can do ok past that. It takes experience with long marks to hone the skill and if the Vdog is getting 20 to 50 yard marks in a 50 to 1 ratio to those marks over a hundred yards, due in part to a lot of upland bird hunting, they are going to hunt short of a long mark because of it. I think a lot of retrievers will as well if their training and experience were the same.

I also think the average Vdog may well out perform the average retriever at recovering downed game given that marks past 100 yards are few and far between compared to to all the other retrieves a dog will make under actual hunting conditions. I think when these comparisons are made it is often an apple to an orange of a top of the line FT Retriever specialist handled by a pro trainer which is seldom hunted, compared to an average Vdog in the hands of an average handler. Or comparing a Guide dog retriever which sees multiple 3 figures of waterfowl retrieves a season to a Vdog which sees less than 100. Vdogs which see similar volumes of retrieves in the field build similar (but perhaps not quite equal) levels of skills is my opinion.

But most generalists are not going to beat a top specialist at their own game.
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby JONOV » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:10 am

Yes and no.

They aren't labs, so don't expect them to take to drilling like labs, or compete in retriever trials like labs do. They can take some handling, but you aren't likely to have them operate like puppets on a 400 yard string like top labs can.

I think that unless you're lucky enough to spend 2 weeks a year duck hunting in the Dakotas and three weeks in Arksansas and have a blind permit in Dare County NC, you aren't going to notice a difference in the amount of game you recover.

And, in my somewhat limited experience, they are more likely to have better blind manners than many labs. That's limited experience, so don't anyone jump on me for saying that.

I'll tell you a story about nose and marking...My dog was 14 months old, first dove hunt, first real "sit and wait" style hunt he'd been on. He sits, we shoot a dove, it goes down, I think I have a good mark, Dog keeps going to a different spot, I keep hacking him back, we can't find the bird. We move 40 yards down the field. The dog dives in behind me where HE kept trying to look and pops out with the dove about a minute later (really thick and nasty stuff.)
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby 30024grand » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:01 pm

I guess these comments interest me.
I can't disagree with any of the comments
If it's distilled down to the basics it's eyesight retrieving
Desire/passion and intelligence to grasp concepts.
With right conditioning and trainING why can ' they be excellent matkers.also finishing a mark also includes
Eyes and nose unless your training on a golf course.
Would you say the DD have excellent noses?
BTW we ate not talking quads grouped so tight they look
Like t hey are dropping on top of each orher from the line
That is the latest trends in ret. truals. At distances from
250 -400 yards
I talking 100-150 yard doubles etc.thst are fairly spead out. Do they like marking exercises like 10- a day?
And still remain focused?
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby 30024grand » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:09 pm

I imagine I will get comments like
"Just get a lab and be done with it"

I enjoy doing things a bit different
Like being the first spaniel to
Become a GRHRCH UH or having
The fist IWS to become competitive
In all age licenced retriever trials in
Several decades.
Having Boykin spaniel that can win
Mixed breed flushing trials.
I do it because it's fun and challenging .
I would NEVER beat a dog up because couldn't
They couldn't achieve these extreme goals
It's just fun to try.
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby 30024grand » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:01 pm

sorry guys for the bad spelling.
I was typing these posts on a phone without my glasses.

I really enjoy all the comments and advice I have received so far.
Seems like a great group of dog enthusiasts.
regards
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby JONOV » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:14 pm

I believe there is a poster here that has run GWP's or DD's through Senior Hunter Retriever testing (or something of the sort, could have been HRCH or another retriever.)
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby 30024grand » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:08 pm

I was at a grand event in Texas there was a GSP running.
From what I saw it was a good dog. Handled fairly well and marked well.
Pretty big accomplishment considering the difficulty of water blinds and triple and quad marks.
So day 5 all he had left to pass was the upland test.
We thought he has got this in the bag, he the only REAL upland bird dog here.
The dog broke and was failed. There is no second chances.
Big respect for the guy and dog to get that far.
Every body thought I and my spaniel would fail. It was the only spaniel there and we passed.
I enjoy that type of thing as long as the dog was loving it as well.
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:33 pm

I responded with a hunting perspective. Seems your last two posts are more from a retriever hunt test perspective which puts the advantage more in favor of the retriever than in the field retrieves while hunting, in my view.

Yes my GWPs and the DDs I have hunted with in general had very good noses. 100 to 150 yard double marks - yea I think alot of DDs can be trained to handle those very well. 10 marks a day, every day - I think it will vary by the dog how well they handle that. The GWP I put down last summer at near 14 years of age would have handled it very well. My current 2 year old would do better with 5 a day and not every day, but we are working land and water marks with a Lucky Launcher 2 at 100 yards and he will work them as fast as he can run or swim. And we are working on basic blind retrieve handling and it is going pretty well. He will take a line across water for 100 yards and simple overs are pretty good at that distance. Back needs more work, seems like he will get confused on them and the Duck Search training we did previously makes it likely he will go into a search mode pretty easy as distances increase. I am trying to preserve the search while adding some handling... 10 marks in a row, and every day would be too much for this dog.
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Re: DDS are they good markers?

Postby 30024grand » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:05 pm

Thank you average guy.
When I purchase a DD puppy I need to be sure his parents
Are retreviering machines that love water. It seems there
Are varience with in the breed regardless
Of German testing standards.
This is understandable.
Regarding handling, not
Sure where the line is between honorING their nose
And putting the trust in the handler to take casts.
One thing for sure it will be fun to learn
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