Breeding

Genetics, breeding, birth defects, diseases, etc. (No litter listings)

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Re: Breeding

Postby hicntry » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:15 pm

"I have no idea what K9 Pro Sports venue is."

I guess that is where the misunderstanding is.
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

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Re: Breeding

Postby orhunter » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:15 pm

MDave:

Since Griffman hasn't responded, I'll try to explain what he means. This is about pet buyers driving the market and the breeders lowering their standards or people becoming breeders to satisfy the market. Ethics and the dogs be damned.
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Re: Breeding

Postby Meridiandave » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:10 pm

orhunter wrote:MDave:

Since Griffman hasn't responded, I'll try to explain what he means. This is about pet buyers driving the market and the breeders lowering their standards or people becoming breeders to satisfy the market. Ethics and the dogs be damned.


I am not sure that is what he is saying. I hope he responds. I think it is more along the lines of JTracyII. I am interested to see what he is thinking..
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Re: Breeding

Postby JONOV » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:21 am

orhunter wrote:MDave:

Since Griffman hasn't responded, I'll try to explain what he means. This is about pet buyers driving the market and the breeders lowering their standards or people becoming breeders to satisfy the market. Ethics and the dogs be damned.


I didn't understand it that way at all. I understood it to mean a strictly data-driven breeding program, rather than recognizing that day in, day out the prize II dog might be a better dog than a prize I dog, or that it isn't valid to compare a dog tested at 15 months of age to one tested at 6 months of age based on test scores alone.

The other thing that I think about, is how many people look to see how many times a dog has been tested? I've seen dogs that have been "campaigned" where they've run the NA test multiple times mostly trying for that Prize 1. Nothing wrong with it, but what does it tell you? Unless there's a breed club that requires a minimum score (I think some SM's, PP's, have this requirement.)

I typed in one Griff kennel and went down their list of scores; they had a dog get a 108 Prize II five months old, the comment was "has puppy teeth," then test the dog months later for a 110 Prize I. Can anyone tell me what the second test tells anyone? What purpose did running a dog, that scored a 108 at 5 months old, a second time? I can see two reasons; ego, or future puppy sales. Anyone that's been around longer than I have (and that's most of you) feel free to correct me.
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Re: Breeding

Postby orhunter » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:01 pm

JONOV:

I'm one of those guys who "campaigned" their dog right up till the last day or two before she aged out. I wanted a good score for the breeder, not for me. My dog's faults were man (me) made and I wanted to see if she could work through them to the point she got the score she deserved. She wasn't a test dog, she was a hunting dog and she wasn't a 112 dog because she'd get nothing but 3's in cooperation. This was a reflection on her desire and drive which is what made her the great dog she was. Her man made problem was water. I wouldn't be dragging the breed down by breeding a multi tested 105 prize I dog.
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Re: Breeding

Postby JONOV » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:17 pm

orhunter wrote:JONOV:

I'm one of those guys who "campaigned" their dog right up till the last day or two before she aged out. I wanted a good score for the breeder, not for me. My dog's faults were man (me) made and I wanted to see if she could work through them to the point she got the score she deserved. She wasn't a test dog, she was a hunting dog and she wasn't a 112 dog because she'd get nothing but 3's in cooperation. This was a reflection on her desire and drive which is what made her the great dog she was. Her man made problem was water. I wouldn't be dragging the breed down by breeding a multi tested 105 prize I dog.

I get where your coming from. I was this close to running my dog again, I thought I owed him a prize 1. I had him scheduled for a test a month and a half later, and had a work trip interfere. I still think about it for a minute, then I decide to either go hunting or get to training for the UT test.

I guess, my question is, when you see a dog that's pretty clearly chasing a few extra points, what does that tell you?

0 -10 4 4 4 4 2 4 4 108 TEMP-Normal
0 -11 4 4 4 4 3 4 4 110 TEMP-Normal

^^That's the same dog, one month apart. Prize two then prize one.

That scorecard tells you that a month later, it had a better track in front of the judges. Nothing more.

Its one thing if you see a dog that gets a low score/prize as a younger dog, then much better as an older dog. That could be indicative of a lot of things, the dog maturing, the weather, the dog developing an affinity for swimming, etc...
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Re: Breeding

Postby orhunter » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:06 pm

Yea, there's no way to predict what you'll get on any given day. Anyone who knows their dog should be able to fill out the score card without running the dog especially where you think it may fail. A person who doesn't know this hasn't spent enough time with their dog. The dog's final score should be no surprise.
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Re: Breeding

Postby Urban_Redneck » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:46 am

orhunter wrote:Yea, there's no way to predict what you'll get on any given day. Anyone who knows their dog should be able to fill out the score card without running the dog especially where you think it may fail. A person who doesn't know this hasn't spent enough time with their dog. The dog's final score should be no surprise.


I agree.

I knew mine would take a hit on cooperation due to her relentless pursuit of chukar once allowed to chase. She earned a 3 on the track due in large part to no one notifying those of us(me) in the on deck circle that the judges moved the track 100y further down the road between dogs- the bee stings to face :shock: didn't help either. Chasing issue aside, I knew she was a prize 1 dog and that's what she earned.
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