Most Influential Griff?

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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby AverageGuy » Wed May 09, 2018 11:34 am

The DDs are producing consistently good NA, Coats and temperaments is my observation. Might be something instructive there.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby Meridiandave » Wed May 09, 2018 2:04 pm

orhunter wrote:
MD: I probably misunderstood your reference to the "show" breeders you mentioned?

Something else about Jacque. I think he's probably a much better dog than what he showed everyone at the invitational. He was a good example of what training can force a dog to do just to comply with the trainer. Kind of like teaching our children to clean up their bedrooms. Yea, we can get 'em to do it but they certainly aren't going enjoy it and call it fun.


Harvey, I agree with what you said above.
I can say from first hand experience there is no shortage of prey drive in that dog. I had the privilage of taking Frank and Jacque over to my brothers to run on wild birds this February. He plowed into cattails with gusto at his age as wild roosters were flying everywhere. Also it is really not up for debate whether he is a successfull sire. I have seen a lot of his progeny hunt and I have personally seen them test as well. Test scores also bear that out with his progeny.

Coats: Yes, I pulled all the genetic research I could find on coats. I have also been in contact with folks on the health and genetics team with the akc breed club. The basic difficulty with Griffon's is not that there are so many permutations in coat genetics, it is that every permutation on coat type is in the genome of the original patriarchs of the breed.

Coats on Mr. Brown and his progeny are good coats.. They are double coats, and they are definatly wirehaired coars and not soft. A wavy coat (heterozygous at the curl gene) is going to appear fuller than a straight coat (homozygous straight at the curl). The coat on my me wirehair is coarse and straight. It appears tighter even though her hairs ar 2 1/2" long. Both type of coats can be seen in the original griffons that Kirthal produced and both are correct. What is bad is when we see griff's with soft coats and not wirehair. This is the fluffy coats that people, including myself and harvey complain about. There are two things a griff cannot have in their coat, soft and curly. They also must carry the wirehaired gene (wirehair and furnishings controlled by the same gene).

Harvey, yes I think we are saying the same thing on those breeders. They would call themselves dual while we call the show.

Sorry, I probably got more into this than I should have on this thread.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby orhunter » Wed May 09, 2018 7:38 pm

There’s lots of terms to discribe the Griff coat. The first one I had trouble with was, “tight.” To me, it means flat lying, close/tight to the body. Near as it can tell, it actually means short. Tough for me to grasp when the word short works fine. Also, the words fluffy and soft can be confusing. Fluffy means, not tight, not flat lying. A wire coat can be fluffy, a soft coat is just bad, no confusion there, no other terms matter if the coat is soft. The breed name is, Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and the coat should reflect the breed name.

Another odd Griff coat is when the under fur and outer coat are pretty near the same length. Dogs with darker coats can reflect this trait much more often than silver colored dogs. These coats can appear fluffy. The more silver colored the coat, the more likely it is to be flat lying. Just a trend, certainly not absolute. This is why I have a preference for silver colored dogs. Do not confuse silver with gray, they are not the same. A gray coat indicates soft. I also have a preference for dogs with solid colored dark heads. A dog with a white blaze on the forehead can have a nice coat as long as the rest of the hair is dark. Any trend toward blonde on the head usually increases the chance of a soft (gray) coat.

A person does have some control over their dog’s coat. Dogs with longer dual coats are the easiest to maintain. If the dog doesn’t have a particularly flat coat, you can help by stripping the outer coat completely with just the under coat remaining. Then clip the under coat as short as what seems practical so when the new outer coat grows in, it isn’t held up by an overlong under coat. NEVER CLIP THE OUTER COAT.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby hicntry » Wed May 09, 2018 9:24 pm

Damn Harvey.....sounds just like it came out of an Airedale book on coats. Double coated, some lay flat, some don't, some have great furnishings, some don't and some have none, blonde furnishing are the softest. I could go on, but, I would guess that all double coated furry bags are pretty much the same and not unique at all. The show breeders always preach about how clipping the coats makes them soft. I clipped all my dogs with horse clippers and never stripped a dog in my life and they never got a soft coat.......but, I was not a show breeder. Surprisingly, the coats can be bred for on a kennel by kennel basis if someone wants to put in the time.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby ABurkdoll » Thu May 10, 2018 8:20 am

With a lot of photos missing due to photo bucket it'd be nice to see some new photos posted to show what these coats actually look like. Kinda hard to visualize what a silver soft coat or a slick coat looks like. Also be nice to see a few pictures of what is being said to be the better coats for hunting.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby orhunter » Thu May 10, 2018 9:59 am

ABurkdoll:

Yea, the Photobucket problem has set us all back. If you PM me your e-mail address I can send you a ton of photos that I’ve collected over the years. I haven’t deleted a single e-mail in the past 15 years that has had a dog photo attached so have quite a collection. It will be at least two weeks before I can send any to you as I’ll be away from my home computer where the photos rest. Griffman (and a couple of others) have some good stuff, you might contact him?
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby ABurkdoll » Thu May 10, 2018 10:14 am

orhunter wrote:ABurkdoll:

Yea, the Photobucket problem has set us all back. If you PM me your e-mail address I can send you a ton of photos that I’ve collected over the years. I haven’t deleted a single e-mail in the past 15 years that has had a dog photo attached so have quite a collection. It will be at least two weeks before I can send any to you as I’ll be away from my home computer where the photos rest. Griffman (and a couple of others) have some good stuff, you might contact him?



PM sent, thank you.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby hicntry » Thu May 10, 2018 7:25 pm

You guys got me worried talking about los
ing photos on photobucket. I thought I lost most of my pics and vids, but last week I thought I got it figured out. Can you scroll back and forward off of this pic?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... _1322r.jpg
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby carramrod » Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 pm

hicntry wrote:You guys got me worried talking about los
ing photos on photobucket. I thought I lost most of my pics and vids, but last week I thought I got it figured out. Can you scroll back and forward off of this pic?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... _1322r.jpg


I can't. It just shows the same picture as all the other photo bucket pictures. I wonder how much that helped photo bucket.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby ABurkdoll » Fri May 11, 2018 8:46 am

carramrod wrote:
hicntry wrote:You guys got me worried talking about los
ing photos on photobucket. I thought I lost most of my pics and vids, but last week I thought I got it figured out. Can you scroll back and forward off of this pic?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v401/ ... _1322r.jpg


I can't. It just shows the same picture as all the other photo bucket pictures. I wonder how much that helped photo bucket.


Same for me.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby hicntry » Fri May 11, 2018 9:20 am

Thanks. Guess got nothing figured out. Does the one link even work or does it just show for my computer?
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby ANick » Sat May 12, 2018 9:52 am

hicntry wrote:Thanks. Guess got nothing figured out. Does the one link even work or does it just show for my computer?



Pup swimming, posted by hicntry.. I can see that one frame.
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Re: Most Influential Griff?

Postby hicntry » Sat May 12, 2018 10:10 am

Good to know. Thanks
Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.
Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
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