Training someone else's dog

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Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:59 am

This is something that I said I'd never do. I guess mother was right, "never is a long time". I have my son's PP and seeing if I can get her ready for her UT test at the end of August. This will probably be the last dog I train, I'm 75 years old but you never know. I can hear the pros chuckling already!

I'll start with what I was told and what I found;

Nearly finished FF; dog won't pick up dummy on ground
Almost steady; points well but breaks on flush
Retrieves birds; brings birds back to 10 feet from me, drops them and won't pick them up.
Good in the water; dog is fantastic, will swim a 300 yard channel with no shore running
Has been collar conditioned; when the collar is on I get instant recall to a "buzz"

We have the FF just about finished, she picks up the dummy off of the table and we are moving to dead birds to-day. Stay tuned.

So far the worst parts have been the phone calls telling me what I'm doing wrong.
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby booger » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:04 pm

Nearly finished FF; dog won't pick up dummy on ground

Got a smile out of me on that one. :mrgreen:
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Sounds like a great project.
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Willie T » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:54 pm

Sounds to me like you have some work to do. It also sounds like you have a lot to work with. If I were a betting man, I would bet "you are enjoying working with that dog".
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:10 am

Yes I'm enjoying it a lot, so is she, her tail wags when she brings back the dummy.

What I learned and the pros already know; what she will do for her owner she won't necessarily do for me and vice versa. I think this may be the most important lesson. If you send your dog to a pro, you should spend time with the pro too to learn how to get the most out of your dog.

An example; I "fumble" the dummy when she brings it to me, she grabs it off the ground and hands it to me a second time. The dog thinks that this is great fun, I think it makes it less likely that I'll have a heart attack if I drop the duck at the test and she won't pick it up!

Doing thrown marks on the ground, she is breaking, once we get that fixed I'll move to sight blinds.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Meridiandave » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:29 am

A dog is not properly FF for the UT test until it can force to pile across water. As a note during the FF process dogs kick back at pretty predictable times. They are: 1) picking bumper off the ground; 2) transition to birds at distance; 3) Force to pile; 4) force to pile across water.

Keep working and good luck.
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:16 am

I've never "forced to pile" I took a course opn it from a good trainer but it wasn't solving a problem that I had. Nothing wrong with the advice, I've just never done it.

Hand thrown dummies! I know why we do it but it causes nothing but trouble for a UT dog. I sat her down beside me and by the time I had wound up she was in front of me and broke when I threw it! Not good at all. With hand thrown, you teach; hunting short, breaking (self release) and not marking the fall, I shouldn't be doing it.

I got out my home made dummy launcher that started life as a ".303 enfield that shot .22 lr. it now launches dummies when loaded with a ramset.

Dog sitting beside me, gun in lt. hand, buzzer in rt. hand, fire the shot, never taking eyes off of the dog, she stands but stays put, send dog, she doesn't mark it all that well but brings it back to hand, I fumble dummy, she picks it up and gives it to me. O.K. we'll do more marks today so that she gets better at it.

Next is sight blinds, as close as I come to forcing to pile. Oh I have one problem with the pile, I don't like a dog to switch and I've had that problem when I try a pile, sometimes (often) I get 2 dummies brought back.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby flitecontrol » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:47 am

Densa44 wrote:Hand thrown dummies! I know why we do it but it causes nothing but trouble for a UT dog. I sat her down beside me and by the time I had wound up she was in front of me and broke when I threw it! Not good at all. With hand thrown, you teach; hunting short, breaking (self release) and not marking the fall, I shouldn't be doing it.


If she has been trained to "sit", she shouldn't be doing that. Put a short lead on her and while holding the lead (or her collar), toss a dummy right in front of her. If she get's excited and tries to break, calm her down and make sure she is steady before releasing her. Of course, praise her to high heaven when she gets it right. Gradually increase both length of the throw and how long she has to sit before being released.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:28 pm

Breaking on a mark; I hate that, my old retriever days before electricity! Boy could I tell some stories of methods that the boys tried.

I got my hand cannon, she was wearing her pink e-collar, I held the gun in lt. hand, rt hand on the buzzer, and looked her right in the eye while giving her a strong "sit" gun goes bang, dummy takes off and she creeps a bit, I re-heel but no spark. Repeat, no creep this time. Moved to a different location and did it again, success, she didn't move until I kicked her off.

I hope for better tomorrow.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:45 am

The pros were right! I had to go back to FF and we had a couple of tough days, I'm now agreed that if you don't know the dog, they need a complete course of FF before anything else or you are wasting your time.

Things are going well now and we are now retrieving dead birds in the water and the dog looks good. Her duck searches are very good.

Still need to teach the drag.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:50 am

This has been very humbling, all the comments that I have heard from pros over the years (don't do it was the most common) have come flooding back. The dog has some commands that produce strange effects, such as running away from me. I have now picked, new to her, the dog, new commands and they are working fine.

Eg. at a recent club training day I heard a handler say to the dog at the line "stay, sit, whoa, fetch, stop and go" all on the same mark. So to say that there is no way of knowing what the dog has been exposed to is an understatement.

We are teaching drags in long cover so she needs to put her head down, and steady to flush, shot and splash. I find that every now and then I have to "tag up" and teach a review, like the long wait.

She now retrieves to hand and when I drop the bird she picks it up with enthusiasm, she doesn't parade around me with the bird either. On blinds she takes off like a shot so she has learned that skill.

I have 3 more weeks and I/we should be ready. Stay tuned. There are still a million new things that can go wrong. I am worried about these "special" words that the dog knows that I don't, I'll have to be very careful just to use the ones that I have taught her.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:38 am

I need a little help here. As it happens all the UT spots in all the NAVHDA clubs for this August within 800 miles of Alberta are filled. Does anyone know of a club that has spaces in the UT test? Thank you. Today I'm taking off the e-collar to see what I have, so I may not need the test spot after all.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby orhunter » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:43 am

Look into VHDF.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:29 pm

Thanks but I need a NAVHDA test. It is not my dog. She did her lessons today with no collar, and she was great, so progress has been made. Try flush shot and splash tomorrow with no collar and we'll see where the holes are.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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Re: Training someone else's dog

Postby Densa44 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:42 pm

She pointed and as I passed her, I held up my hand, she took a step and then stopped. Fired 4 shots from my cap gun and she didn't move. So as far as I'm concerned she is ready.

Anybody know anything about the UT test in South Dakota? If they have any space I'll take her down there.
Pine Ridges Ginnieve NA 112 UT pz 1 200
Camridge's Sienna NA 112 UT pz 1 204
Foothill Joce NA 112
Czarina Vom Oberland VJP 70 NA pz 112
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