Different ranging dogs

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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby oldtimer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:15 am

A shorter range dog does not have to be sluggish. When my DD was young, she ran as fast as any dog I have ever hunted over, just didn't run out as much as laterally.
Last edited by oldtimer on Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby JONOV » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:14 pm

oldtimer wrote:A shorter range dog does not have to be sluggish. When my DD was young, she ran as fast as any dog I have ever hunted over, just didn't run out as much a laterally.

An old college friend has a field bred Cocker that is anything bud "sluggish," even though it never gets much beyond 40 yards. Its like you have a pinball machine in front of you and the dog is the ball...
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Bill in Oregon » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:21 pm

Great thread gentlemen. JONOV, love your description of the pinball Cocker.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Densa44 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:46 pm

I hunted with 2 from the same litter, both PPs and both 112/204 dogs. The big difference is one is owned by a 73 year old fat guy and the other one by a much younger guy who used to be a professional athlete. It was a snowy day and the snow was 6" on the ground I already had all the pheasants that I wanted, and my friends dog goes on point 800 M away up a steep hill. Did I mention the snow?

I kept busy hoping that he would just come back to me. I didn't want to call someone else's dog off of a bird, so I walk the half mile and struggle up the hill. I'm coming down wind and the dog is facing up wind so I figure that I'll come to the bird first and it will flush. No dice I get up to the dog and he is frozen and no bird, so I say to him (I've trained this dog too) "Hunter what have you got"? he moves and right at my right heel up comes a rooster from under the snow. There was no way I could turn around and shoot without falling down the slippy hill.

How far the dog ranges is something that you can teach. In fact you can teach a dog anything.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby JTracyII » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:56 pm

Densa,

It seems to me that most dogs have a natural range. Don't take this as a challenge as its not intended that way, but how would you go about training a dog to consistently range 150-200 yards who likes to range 30 yards?
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby bhennessy » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:24 pm

JTracyII wrote:Densa,

It seems to me that most dogs have a natural range. Don't take this as a challenge as its not intended that way, but how would you go about training a dog to consistently range 150-200 yards who likes to range 30 yards?


Great questions, from a guy who would like to stretch out one of his pups. I would also love to read some advice on good training techniques to achieve greater range.

Recently I pup both of my Griffs on the ground together to hunt woodcock because at the end of the day, when they are "finished dogs" (whatever that means) I want to be able to hunt them together. I was also hoping that my young dog would help my older dog increase his range because they tend to be very competitive with each other. However, the exact opposite happened. After a short time my older dog collapsed down to 15 yards max from me. Won't do that again for a while I guess. The only thing I can think of is that my older dog was content to let the pup do all the work? And/or, the cover is very heavy so perhaps he was simply adjusting his natural range to suit the cover and coming up very short.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Highlander » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:56 pm

A Vdog worth the title should adapt to the cover and birds being hunted.


^ This

A good versatile upland dog for me first and most means a dog capable of hunting any upland bird in (almost) any circumstance. This is the whole point of the German breeds. That's why they have become so popular.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Highlander » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:56 pm

Posted twice.

edited.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Spindog » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:20 pm

In cover my friends and I have found that running a "zone offense" produces great results. This assumes that the dogs have been trained at backing. Speaking of manners It is also a good way to train backing. If the short ranging dog stands a bird you can bring the long range dog in under tight control to back and vice versa. We had some classic Spinone/EP combinations. We had 2 dogs that could not ever seem to get along around camp but when the hunted together it was remarkable how much cooperation and respect they showed for each other.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:30 pm

My recently deceased female griff wasn't a big runner when young (100 yards or less on average) but as she got older she seemed to get really knowledgable about what we were hunting (sharptails and chukar mostly for upland game) and seemed determined to find birds no matter what. Her range increased to several hundred yards (800 yards at times) and if she hunted with other dogs their presence seemed to have zero affect on her range or determination. I also hunted her for quail in fairly tight quarters and she would scour the area for singles when the setter she was hunting with blew through and went on. So, based on the experience of one, I'd say a dog's range might increase with time and experience. Have others noticed this?
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Densa44 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:35 am

If you want more range, train them with dogs that have the range you are looking for. The dogs are competitive and smart and pick it up very quickly. I have 5 dogs so everyone doesn't have that advantage but if your friends have dogs that hunt out farther and that's what you want, train with them.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Densa44 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:34 pm

My assumption is that the short ranging dog has approximately the same athletic ability as the big running dog. If you have a little spaniel and you want it to range like a gsp you have bought the wrong dog.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby Deacon » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:48 am

An old college friend has a field bred Cocker that is anything bud "sluggish," even though it never gets much beyond 40 yards. Its like you have a pinball machine in front of you and the dog is the ball...


A friend of mine field trialed his English Cockers. his dogs had as much drive and heart as any dog I have ever seen. The pinball analogy is a good one. A ton of fun to hunt with.
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Re: Different ranging dogs

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:20 pm

The hunts where limits of upland birds are taken are most commonly due to finding multiple coveys of birds, vs the same numbers of singles is my experience. Hunting singles is a valuable skill but second to finding coveys is my preference.

Last year in TX the Bobwhites were so thick the hot running EPs were seldom past 100 yards before they were on point. This year the same dogs were running at 2 to 300 yards on the same ranch, (and further in the more open areas) because they were not smelling birds as they hunted.

I have seen dogs run far and fast which were not hunting and think often others have as well. I think it commonly yields an incorrect assumption by many that a dog willing to run big is running past birds. I do not think that is the case at all with the good ones, particularly related to coveys. It does take a more thorough and slower dog to find all the singles but that is seldom what makes for a banner day afield in big country is my experience.
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