FF question

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FF question

Postby gundog » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:45 am

I have a 4 year old english pointer male that is steady to wing and shot. He has a sloppy retrieve when sent. He can be seen chewing and has several drops on upland birds. I also use him for first split duck and september goose, he will line right back but drop birds at the bank. He does not chew ducks or geese. I stopped hunting him on waterfowl after mid october. I have saved half a dozen ducks and half a dozen geese since then for training purposes and they are now frozen. I have access to live gamebirds as well. I will be following the NAVHDA green book copyright 1974, is this outdated? Are there any benefits to Dokken bumpers? Is there a better program?
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Re: FF question

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:08 pm

The Green Book is a fine book though it is old. Smart Fetch by Evan Graham is considered the bible and I highly recommend it.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: FF question

Postby Densa44 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:33 pm

You don't need special dummies or birds. Read the books and take your time. Do not lose your temper. I've never trained a pointer so that's all I'll say the others can probably help more.
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Re: FF question

Postby Meridiandave » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:55 pm

I second Smartfetch by Evan Graham. My dog liked to chew on occaison. I used the hold command with my hand on top and on bottom of the jaw to stop the chewing. Took me 2 months to do the whole program. Take tour time as others have said.
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Re: FF question

Postby gundog » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:54 am

Thanks, I ordered the smartfetch book and look forward to it.
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Re: FF question

Postby Duckdon » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:52 pm

Another suggestion. Join your local NAVHDA Chapter and take advantage of their help with training.
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Re: FF question

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:05 pm

Duckdon wrote:Another suggestion. Join your local NAVHDA Chapter and take advantage of their help with training.
Don and Crew


Don is right. Whenever you get a chance to watch a really knowledgable person handle a dog, train a dog, you will probably learn more than you will from any book. Ask good questions and never tell him: This is the way I'd do it.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: FF question

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:40 pm

Buying some 1:1 time with a pro trainer is an excellent way to get their help teaching you how to work with your dog on a specific problem.
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Re: FF question

Postby Doc E » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:51 pm

gundog wrote:Thanks, I ordered the smartfetch book and look forward to it.


Get both the book and DVD.
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Re: FF question

Postby Marshall2017 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:27 pm

Yes, agreed on Evan Graham, but definitely as said above get the DVD also. He does have an actual bundle with a number of books with corresponding Dvd’s You can look for!!
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Re: FF question

Postby Kiger2 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:27 pm

Do what doc said , then put that stuff aside and follow The tri tronics trained retrieve. Its available for free on you tube, (though you should buy it). I have proven over and over here on this forum that it is the most thorough, step by step program for FF. It is the easiest for the dog and the new trainer to follow.

Doc, gonehuntin or anyone else cannot give you a logical, reasoned response on why it doesn't work or accomplish all the goals of FF. or is harmful to the dog.

Doc, gonehuntin, before you respond with some gibberish about how few pro trainers follow it, please tell the OP what it is about dobbs method that is wrong, causes harm to the dog or won't achieve the desired results?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

For the OP. I currently have a lab pup here for training, and two dogs in line when I get done with this one. The only reason i don't have more is that my wife and i won't have a dog stay outside in a kennel. when I train, pup is inside with us or i won't take them. this means I'm one dog at a time. (I have two goldens and a weim of my own inside).

But for the OP, getting someone that is GOOD is a great help. There are pros that should not be training! Do your research.Whatever you decide to do good luck! Truly, good luck.
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Re: FF question

Postby Doc E » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:13 am

Kiger2 wrote: follow The tri tronics trained retrieve. I have proven over and over here on this forum that it is the most thorough, step by step program for FF. It is the easiest for the dog and the new trainer to follow. .


Incorrect.
You have shown that it works (as do dozens of other methods), but you have not
proven that it is "the most thorough, step by step program for FF and that it is the easiest for the dog and new trainer to follow".
.

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Re: FF question

Postby Doc E » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:13 am

Kiger2 wrote: follow The tri tronics trained retrieve. I have proven over and over here on this forum that it is the most thorough, step by step program for FF. It is the easiest for the dog and the new trainer to follow. .


Incorrect.
You have shown that it works (as do dozens of other methods), but you have not
proven that it is "the most thorough, step by step program for FF and that it is the easiest for the dog and new trainer to follow".
.

.
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Re: FF question

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:34 am

Now ya went and did it Doc; you answered him.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: FF question

Postby Kiger2 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:36 pm

Doc,

evan does not teach hold as thorough as Dobbs. It is a distinct separate step. I have shown that over and over. You cant argues that it does not contain a much more thorough additional step.


Jeesh Doc now I have to put up with fake news from you too???

You see any crocs when you were in denial?

So gonehuntin, Once again you avoid the question???????? We are here to educate. Why dont you show us your years of wisdom and explain whats wrong with dobbs method??????

Ive asked soo many times with no response, perhaps you cant??????
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