Older dog not accepting new pup.

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Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby Soldaat » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:52 pm

Hello Everyone.

Hoping to get some advice please. A friend of mine has a 6 year old GWP male that I bred. When he was a pup he was attacked by my friends SS male a few times and i think this could be the root of the problem. The GWP has always been agressive towards other male dogs- Only when his owner is near. He grew up with my dogs and we have never even had a growl between them.

He took another male pup from me, it is 5 months old now and the older dog recently started acting very agressive towards the pup. Once again only when my friend is around. When he is at work they seem to love each othera company.

The older dog is a wonderful worker and has a loving personality towards humans ( the kids love him) and bitches.

Is there anything he can try exept the obvious route od getting rid off one of them.

All the best.
Frans
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:56 pm

I have never in all my years found a way to keep two dog's from fighting if one has to prove dominance. Keeping them separated is the only thing that works.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby SMAbby » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:54 pm

Basket Muzzle. He can eat and drink through it. You may only need it for a couple weeks. Give him time to adjust and disipline the young pup without actually hurting him.

The owner need to show the older dog who runs the ultimate show. BUT, the owner also needs to teach the puppy boundries.


Side note, It sickens me to see that there is even a THOUGHT of replacing the older dog for the puppy. This is an owner issue, not so much the dog. I sure as hell wouldnt sell him another dog if this is the case.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby hicntry » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:02 pm

"He took another male pup from me, it is 5 months old now and the older dog recently started acting very agressive towards the pup. Once again only when my friend is around. When he is at work they seem to love each othera company."

Sounds like a clear case of jealousy to me. I wouldn't leave them together without supervision no matter how well they seem to get along together.

Something to think about here. I took to very dominate males out with a young immature male pup once. The dominate dogs both beat up the young dog at separate times. Never saw the dominate males do that to younger, immature males and spent the next year trying to understand it. About a year after the incident, the younger male was in the center yard that butted up to all the other yards. That young male headed straight for the fences containing those same two older males and started fence fighting with them..... going back and for between the two. Two of the dogs were bloodied up good before I could contain the younger one and put him back in his yard. The two older dogs both took a beating from the younger one and it was quick. The younger one didn't have a scratch. Then I realized that those two older dogs were beating up on the young one because they realized he was going to mature into more dog than they could deal with......so they were out to eliminate future problems.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby Soldaat » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:06 pm

Thank you for the replies. Smabby to be fair, the first thing he asked me when we started talking was if I could rehome the pup if it comes to that.

Even if he does that he will still have a problem when he gets another pup. I was wondering if it would have been different if the pup was a bitch.
Suppose it is a jealousy issue, would there be ways of solving the problem. He is getting a proffesional trainer to come acces the situation on Thursday.

All the best
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby Chadwick » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:28 pm

Since this is happening only when the owner is around, it could be a case of resource guarding and the owner is viewed as the resource.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby orhunter » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:36 pm

Agree with Chadwick.....
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby Don » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:49 pm

The root cause of the problem is the older dog is not accepting the owner as dominant or he would not be trying to protect him. The owner needs to take control of the older dog and make him aware he is also a subordinate and has a lower place in the pack.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby RowdyGSP » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:29 pm

My DK and GSP hated each other with a fiery passion. It was a pain in the ass, but I spent a few years just keeping them totally separated in the house.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby JONOV » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:02 pm

Don wrote:The root cause of the problem is the older dog is not accepting the owner as dominant or he would not be trying to protect him. The owner needs to take control of the older dog and make him aware he is also a subordinate and has a lower place in the pack.

Are you sure he's "protecting" him or do you think its a jealousy thing?

I have a foster dog right now and as soon as I start lavishing attention on her, if Gus is around, he literally forces himself between us and tries to crawl in my lap...If he had a different personality I could see him attacking her as a usurper.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby Don » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:49 pm

Regardless if the older dog is "protecting" or "jealous" if he was subordinate he would not be risking over stepping his pack place if the owner establishes his dominance and the dog recognizes this.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby hicntry » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:36 pm

Everything is situational in the dog world. I never owned a dog that didn't know I was the boss and I had some rip roaring fights right at my feet. Why? Because I raised extremely social dominate dogs. Two dogs at the top of the hierarchy are going to settle who is #1. It is what dogs do. Dogs don't see people as dogs anyway. If they did, it makes no sense that the owner would also be seen as a resource that the dog had to guard. They know we are not dogs and one up them on the food chain. Two dogs at different levels can be controlled. I wouldn't consider the older dog in question a dominate dog anyway. With all the different scenarios possible, in the situation described, Don may be right.....dogs may just need someone with a firmer hand.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:17 am

Without understanding how the older dog was raised, it's hard to say what the root of the problem is. Both could be right. There are dog's that will fight and no power on this earth can stop them from doing it. No one will ever accuse me of not being dominant over my dogs yet every once in a while I'd get one on the dog truck that no power could stop from fighting. About 12 years ago I had two setters living in the house together and every once in a while for no reason, one would jump the other and one hell of a fight would ensue. I was never able to stop them and believe me, the "wrath of God" descended on the two whenever a fight started. Some dog's are fighters and can't be stopped.

What's amazing to me is that the OP leaves the two together when he isn't there, with one being only five months old. Some day he could come home to a dead pup. That's just plain stupidity.
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Re: Older dog not accepting new pup.

Postby ryanr » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:22 pm

I had been thinking firmer hand as well because if it only happens when the owner enters the picture regardless of jealousy or guarding the dog doesn't respect the owner as boss, as Don said. I'm sorry to say this as well but the other thing that struck me is already being aware of this issue with the older dog and other male dogs, both owner and breeder agree to put another male dog in the home?
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