Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

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Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby SERE Nate » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:23 pm

Last night I put down a deposit with Broken Bow Kennels in Idaho Falls for a Griffon pup. They normally have a long waiting list, but just had someone back out and I was able to get a male from him. Pup should be ready Dec 15th, with plenty of time to get ready for the fall hunting season.
Since moving to Whitefish, I have been spending 2-3 days a week hunting waterfowl over water with some really good results.
So far I have ordered the following books. Lots of reading in my future!

How to help gun dogs train themselves. Joan Bailey
Gun Dog. Wolters
The training and care of versatile hunting dog. Winterhelt
Training the versatile hunting dog. Chuck Johnson
Dont shoot the dog. Karen Pryor
The art of raising a puppy. Monks of new skete
How to be your dogs best friend. Monks of new skete.

I am also looking at getting a Garmin Alpha 100 TT GPS unit for the pup.

Any good training videos?
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:00 pm

Perfect Start/Perfect Finish
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby orhunter » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:12 pm

As you and your pup work together, you may discover that most of what your read is for your entertainment and may not necessarily benefit your dog. Pro trainers have a different agenda than dog owners so take what you read with a grain of salt.
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby Higgins » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:12 am

There are many methods out there in regard to training gundogs. All those you mentioned are based on obedience in one way or another. I train a lot of Griffs and I use a different method. It's based on trust and cooperation. Griffs are intelligent and can be a bit softer than other breeds. They're smart dogs and do best when they learn and understand how to be successful and are given free will to make successful choices.

Here is a video I did awhile ago. It's of a young griff learning the ropes. https://youtu.be/wvaOvt9sMqs

I have many other videos available, all free at my Youtube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSyx48 ... j8yqdoZR3g

I hope you find them useful.
Brad Higgins
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Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette:

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby orhunter » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:56 am

Higgins says some good stuff.

Griffs are different, that's about it. They hate repetition. Try and force something they'll shut down. Some may label them as soft, others stubborn. They really do like to figure out things for themselves and if you give a good one the opportunity, that's exactly what they'll do. If you dive into full training regiment with a Griff, you and the dog will be disappointed. That's why I said the books are for your entertainment. Reward the dog when it does right, ignore it when it doesn't. All a Griff wants to do is hunt.

One thing you'll need to do is learn to read the dog, why did it do that? Not everything the dog does wrong is the dog's fault. Try to look at everything from the dog's point of view. They are built close to the ground and their point of view isn't that of a human, that's why they have a nose. As good as their nose is (second to none) the wind can play tricks on it. Always trust the dog but be aware things don't go right 100% of the time. Let the dog figure it out, they will if you don't interfere.
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby AverageGuy » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:11 pm

I have had my eyes opened to the power of clicker/marker/treat training for early OB and conditioning training. I encourage you to prowl around the internet/youtube and check out the many materials available there. I used it today when I introduced my young dog to a new dog blind marsh hunting platform and it went real simple and smooth.
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:39 pm

orhunter wrote: If you dive into full training regiment with a Griff, you and the dog will be disappointed. That's why I said the books are for your entertainment. Reward the dog when it does right, ignore it when it doesn't. All a Griff wants to do is hunt.


I've had two griffs and my wife just ordered a new pup. I can't say enough good about the breed so I'm sure you'll be pleased. No dog is perfect but griffs come close IMO. My oldest died a couple months ago but she was tough as nails, and, at age 4 months was the youngest 112 Pz I NA of any breed, and later a Pz II utility, MH in AKC hunt tests, and the only griff ever to get the title HRCH in HRC retriever competition (and one of only six Vdogs out of 2,000 HRCH champions). So you can "dive into a full training regiment" and not be disappointed with griffs. Hell, Orhunter knew her well and even gave her the name "The Great and Powerful Oz" - not without merit I should say. Otherwise I agree with Orhunter, and AG and Higgins
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby daeion » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:00 pm

I might have missed something when I read Training the Versatile Hunting Dog by Chuck Johnson but I didn't find it helpful, I found it to be very vague and short on details.
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby Birddogs » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:20 am

Or is right Griffs are different . As far as training retrieving I could maybe throw
A bumper 6 times before he was disinterested...so at 6 mo's he wasn't going to
Be much for field mallards and he didn't really take to sitting still .
When he was 1.5 we had a hell of a year for fowl ....flooded pea fields
All over the place.....I don't think I lost a bird.....they didn't all come to hand
But he had a lot of natural ability . He handled Canadas pretty well ,
ran them over just like my big Labs . We have had 4 years of semi drought
And last year all the sloughs within 100 miles dried up ....
So no ducks but lots of upland ...
This year we 2-3 ft if snow so I just train him indoors .
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby Birddogs » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:24 am

Books .....I have quite a collection on training Versatiles .

This is still my favourite , recommended it to a lot of
People....been around awhile but still holds up .
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:35 am

Breeding and Training Versatile Hunting Dogs for Hunting and Hunt Tests, by Bob Farris - just came out. Folksy but filled with pearls. Will fast become THE book for training the versatile dog. Heavily into preparing for NA and UT but excellent for just training your dog. Get it!
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby High Country » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:23 am

Bruce Schwartz wrote:Breeding and Training Versatile Hunting Dogs for Hunting and Hunt Tests, by Bob Farris - just came out. Folksy but filled with pearls. Will fast become THE book for training the versatile dog. Heavily into preparing for NA and UT but excellent for just training your dog. Get it!

I started reading this book earlier this week. He goes REALLY deep into breeding and the importance of it. Learned a lot just working through that. So far enjoying his writing style and looking forward to the next chapter!
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby 80s750 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:14 pm

Bruce Schwartz wrote:Breeding and Training Versatile Hunting Dogs for Hunting and Hunt Tests, by Bob Farris - just came out. Folksy but filled with pearls. Will fast become THE book for training the versatile dog. Heavily into preparing for NA and UT but excellent for just training your dog. Get it!


I'm training my first pup and picked this book up. I found somethings useful, but for a newbie I found it a bit lacking particularly in troubleshooting issues along the way. My little guy had no desire to play retrieve in a closed hallway. Literally looked at me like I was stupid. Outside, he's good for a few enthusiastic retrieves. I have been combing this forum for helpful info. Books commonly recommended are the two by Joan Bailey. I have no experience with these however.
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:21 pm

I think most folks need several sources to complete the whole picture because (just like you said) their dog may not fit the average, and the specific problem your dog is having may not be discussed in every book. When you're first starting out you want the early basics and when you're past that stage you want higher level teaching issues. And most people settle into following the program that resonates with their own philosophy.

If the Farris book doesn't speak to your issue then maybe Joan Bailey's "How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves" will. It's highly praised on this forum but I've read it a couple of times and it doesn't seem all that helpful, at least for me. That said, I think it nicely covers early stages of socialization and training.

The book that helped me the most was James Spencer's "Point! Training the all season's Birddog". He has a very practical approach to the basic training process and then discusses lots of pitfalls and how to deal with them. I think it came out in the 90's. The so called "Green" book by Bodo about how to train the Versatile Hunting Dog was published in the 80's or so and is also useful but, again, pretty dated. Also, you might like video instruction more than info from books and "Perfect Start Perfect Finish" has been highly recommended but I haven't personally seen it. You can also search this site for other recommendations.
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Re: Any books or Video recommendation? Griff pup

Postby Urban_Redneck » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:33 am

Training with Mo
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