New Wirehaired Griff owner

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New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby themud » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:43 pm

Can someone point me in the direction of new griff owner training. I have never had a gun dog, or a griff. He is 17 weeks old.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby orhunter » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:21 pm

Get Joan Bailie's, How To Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves.

Pup should already be fetching, learning how to use its nose, getting accustomed to gunfire, lots of off leash time out in the wilds, raising hell, getting into everything, digging up the yard, chasing the neighbor's cat, the usual stuff.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby themud » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:47 pm

Thank you. I will. I live in a golfing community between two very large oxygenated ponds and 1/2 mile from dog park, common size suburban backyard. He has not been digging. I go out with him every time he rings the potty bell. He is fetching, but has a hard time with "out", he just walks around me and smashes into me when I am bent down. My wife grabs the object softly out of his mouth and he gets bored with it after 5-15 tosses even if I try my best to get him excited. He has a nose like I have never seen on a dog. I have a wing on string that he whoas for about 3-5 seconds max.

We live in Fort Collins on a paved trail system that goes for 50 miles. My wife doesn't want him on a long lease as there are bikers. When I take him to a field I let him go crazy on a 26 ft line.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby orhunter » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:30 pm

Dump the check cord. Get him someplace where he can develop nose, range, drive, independence, cooperation, everything he needs to become the great hunting dog you want him to be. They don't learn diddley with a rope on their necks. He needs to be off leash as often as possible. At home, teach leash manners, come, whoa, stay. Stop the wing on a string, that's garbage at this point. Stop doing fetch till he gets bored. He's a Griff, they get bored with repetition. Don't do fetch as a play thing, do it under controlled conditions. If the dog controls the situation, he's more prone to failure. We don't want him to fail. We want him doing it right every time. Don't let him play with training tools.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby bhennessy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:51 pm

X2 Orhunter.
Joan Bailey's book is a great guide to training the first year. In addition to Orhunter's comments, some of my thoughts as a guy with two ongoing Griff projects are below:

Start working the basic obedience mantra: "no", "sit", "stay" and especially "come" every day in 15 or 20 minute sessions. Much more than that and they get bored and start to screw it up. Personally (and since "no" training just happens) I start with come, then stay then sit. Move on to the next once pup has a working knowledge but always return to and repeat training on the previous commands. And try to end a session on a good note. I.e. if pup gets bored and screws up sit, then set him up for success and finish with something he will do well (stay or come, etc.). I still get my three year old out occasionally and work the basics. There are no free rides -- to get something, no matter how little they must perform (sit, stay, come, etc.) and every time you guys are with them is training time to some degree.

Get your waders on and work on introducing him to water at this stage too. Get him into as many different types and bodies of water as possible. There are lots of great threads with good advice on this subject on this forum.

I know everyone has opinions, but here's mine as a two time Griff owner (3 yrs old and 7 mos old): I'm virtually all positive reinforcement (treats, praise and clicker, figure out what your pup responds to most and use it) with my pups until they are older. Negative is for enforcement and reinforcement in my opinion, when they are older. Really, the most negative reinforcement training I do with a young pup is I teach them where "time out" is (back stairs) and that I expect them to park themselves there when told, usually in response to destroying each other or something. This never would have worked on my previous labs, but my Griffs take it to heart, at least for a while! I also put them on the pinch collar at around 6 or 7 months to reinforce good behavior on the leash. They have their moments, but fortunately my Griffs haven't been that destructive when young, unlike some labs I've had.

And finally, get them into birds, birds and more birds their first year. In between the birds take him out for long off lead walks where his instincts can develop without anyone calling, yelling directing, etc. The less you bug him, the sooner he'll learn to hunt in front of you, search effectively, range out, etc. I only speak to praise him and correct him if he's headed into trouble.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby themud » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:26 pm

Thank you all for the replies. It sounds like everyone is in agreement on what to do with Griffs. He is "comes" 7/10 times and "sits" amazing, even at a distance. I want his "sit" and "place" to be "stay" as well, so I am working on "place" in the home. I have had him for 6 weeks and he has not destroyed anything. I have all of the family trying to distract him and then reward. Chew on things? Yes, a little, but again distract and reward.

I was told not to crate him for punishment, as this will lead him to not like his crate. I have two crates. One near my side of the bed and one in the living room. When we leave for an hour or two we put him in the living room crate with the tv going and he stops whining fairly quickly.

We are a fitness family. First and foremost we want him as a family dog because I figure the hunting season doesn't run all year and I big game hunt as well. My wife wants to develop him into a walk/jog partner. So this begs the question. How much exercise is too much? He seems very energetic and I walk him every morning and he wants to run most of the time. We have worked up to a hour of walking in the morning no running, but by mid day or evening he is hyper again, so my wife walks him a mile or two, which helps for the eveing. My wife jogs as slow as a fast walk, seriously. My run can vary as I am 45, from 20 minute 3 miler to 30 miler. I have heard the scare stories of not having them go too long or hard at this age, but our vet who has a Griff from the same breeder said not to worry about those studies as they are snowflaked and that wolves, coyotes run all day starting as pups and you can't get by bad genetics. That the hips and shoulders/elbows will degenerate or they won't.

What about E collars? The local NAVHDA tells us to have one for their weekly off season training meetings. I bought one of the Educators, but do not want to use it until at least 7-8 months and never for correction, but for recall.

Thank you. Themud
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby orhunter » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:53 pm

Have him wear the e-collar every time you are headed out the door to do something fun. My Griff never thought we were ready to hunt unless she had her collar on.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby themud » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:05 pm

I don't think that will be an issue. I installed an in ground fence because we are in a hoity toity golf community with a two rail plastic fence and my other dog and daughter's dog didn't break stride and could jump the fence. He has worn it since 13 weeks and knew the boundaries 3 days later. The prongs are actually smaller on the E mini Educator.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby bhennessy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:12 pm

Probably many different opinions on how hard to exercise them, and when. I took the middle of the road and started waking and jogging up to 3 or 4 miles with my pups at around six months. Before that just long walks, off lead whenever possible daily where he could find his legs. I didn't start riding a bike with my older dog until roughly one year, and won't with our pup until he's a year old. Nothing like 6 or 7 miles next to the bike to wear them out tho! Let him swim all he wants as a pup as this will really wear him down.

good advice from Orhunter about putting the collar on him every time he goes out. He should associate it with fun. Once again, lots of opinions on when to actually begin using it but since I rely on it for correcting behavior when pup know exactly what to do but he's blowing me off, and this seemed to start happening in a premeditated and consistent manner at around nine months, that when I conditioned him. He was also kicking the shizzle out of my old lab with reckless abandon, thinking she would play just as hard, but not listening consistently to "leave it". Some guys say one year, others say four months, etc. and no one is really wrong so I came up with a practical plan that worked for me and stuck to it.

we'll see when Dash hits the same spot in his development, and when he does, I'll turn his collar on. Just be careful that you follow the instructions on introducing your pup to the "hot" collar to a T. The NAVHDA folks are a great resource for stuff like this and I wish we had a chapter down here.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby themud » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:00 pm

Thank you!!
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby GRIFF MAN » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:20 am

Can't express enough...Go To Navhda.
Great organisation to assist in learning how to train a v dog !

Your dog will love you for it :lol:
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby themud » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:57 am

I will, but since it's the hunting season they do not meet. They start back up after the season. Reading all of these headings and training others make it seem like if you don't have it down by 4 months or 7 months you dog is a loss cause. I know a guy with two britts that worked as a guide when he was in college. He says he hasn't done a thing with his dogs and they are house dogs and they keep getting better and better each hunting season.
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby GRIFF MAN » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:38 pm

themud wrote: He says he hasn't done a thing with his dogs and they are house dogs and they keep getting better and better each hunting season.



Really !!! How good could they be with proper training and contact ?

I would not suggest the lay on the couch and pray method of training, but to each there own !


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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby orhunter » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:45 pm

"Better and better each hunting season," doesn't say they're worth a hoot. Has the guy ever hunted with a good dog? "The poorest judge of a dog is its owner."
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Re: New Wirehaired Griff owner

Postby GRIFF MAN » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:22 am

The age of your pup is vital in its development in being a bird dog. Don't worry alot about bird contact, that is not as important as some of the other things that he should be learning now.

Independence and cooperation are two vital traits to discover at this age. I like to take mine on free runs in wide open fields.Walks around the block are not what it needs at this age. Field runs gets the pups to build desire, independence, and self thinking. Also, it will help with the pup learning to check back with you and learn you are in the field to help him not to put restrictions on him. To often I see guys with pups check cording a young dog in the field. They are playing tug of war with each other. When the pup gets his chance to be off lead....zoom, gone !
Riding in crates and being quite in a crate. Drinking from a water bottle. Recall ( big skill to learn).

Just a few things to work on with a young dog.
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