Crossbreds

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Crossbreds

Postby FurIsFun » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:54 am

Anyone have experience with crossbred dogs? Ie...GSP x EP, GSP x DD
How about pointer x retriever or pointer x flusher?
What was the cross % (1/2, 3/4 ) and what were the results?
Thanks.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby hicntry » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:12 pm

Airedale x staghound 1/2 x 1/2

Airedale x greyhound 1/2 x 1/2
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby FurIsFun » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:22 pm

Thanks hicntry. I have hunted with both those crosses, but I should have specified crossbreds as bird dogs.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby orhunter » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:33 pm

GSP/DK X DD isn't crossbred. Called, back breeding.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby Willie T » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:55 pm

Had an uncle that really liked a cross that the local bird hunters called a "dropper". 1/2 pointer and 1/2 setter. His were good quail dogs but sand burs gave them fits at times.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:30 pm

I had a Dropper 1/2 EP 1/2 Setter. Looked like a 100% Orange and White EP. Was an excellent upland bird dog relative to the things that put wild birds in the gamebag. Hunted so hard I had to call him and force him to lie down in the grass with me at times to catch his breath as he got older, excellent nose, nice to look at on point, soft sweet disposition, honored other dogs well, ignored them and went hunting otherwise. Hunted dead well and retrieved to my feet. Hunted him on pheasants, bobwhites and prairie chickens. Self taught that after the second time a rooster ran out from under his point he would make a wide fast loop and start working back towards me, get it pinned down and rise up on an intense staunch point as I closed in from the backside. Photo is from a too short hunt in Southern Iowa many years ago. Took my Dropper and my 7 month old GWP pup with plans to get a few birds in the bag, put the Dropper up and get the pup out. The Dropper cornered a 2 man limit for us before we could get back to the truck on the first drop. Would gladly take another one just like him, today.

Image

Had a Buddy who had a Lab/Redbone Hound cross. Effective, slow working close range, flash/flagging point then flush type of dog on pheasants and quail where good numbers of birds existed. Would work water fairly well if it was not too cold out. Superb blood tracking skills, on whitetails in particular. Hard mouthed at times but not consistently. Had a hound type coat and conformation, charcoal color with a beautiful red sheen when she was in the sun, hound bawl voice when she barked and a medium hound ear. An obvious mix of hound and lab mentality which made her always interesting, at least to us who enjoyed hunting with her. No bird escaped her nose, live, crippled or dead.

Hunted with a Brittany/setter cross which looked more like an orange and white brittany than a setter. Close working stay busy wind shield wiper search, would point but no training so not terribly staunch. Hunted dead fairly well and retrieved to your feet. Decent meat dog in an era when we were just grateful to have the help.

And numerous terrier/hound/cur crosses for fur. Many of whom were excellent.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby hicntry » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:25 pm

FurIsFun wrote:Thanks hicntry. I have hunted with both those crosses, but I should have specified crossbreds as bird dogs.


Yeh, I just took it from your handle that fur dogs were included.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby FurIsFun » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:39 am

Thanks for the responses fellas.
orhunter-My guess is the purists from either the GSP or DD camp wont see it that way. How different are the two breeds now?
AverageGuy, Willie T-A "dropper" seems like it would be a pretty high percentage success. Other than coat, is there a drastic difference between what each breed brings to the table?
hicntry-Most of my fur dogs have been a crossbred of one type or another. I realize nothing beats the specialists at their game, but I rarely hunt like a purist on anything from badger to bear. A versatile dog is a must for me, so I'm just curious how creative folks have gotten in their breeding/hunting with "bird dogs"
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby orhunter » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:37 am

The DK/GSP camp would be in an uproar if the results were advertised as DK/GSP's because three separate breeds would be introduced to the line and they couldn't be called GSP's by any stretch of the imagination. In the DD camp, the results would still be called DD's. Maybe not the DD's they want but that's simply semantics. The DD isn't exactly what many think it is due to the devastating effects of two world wars fought by Germany. In it's purest form, the DD is somewhere around 1/2 Pudelpointer, 1/4 Griff, 1/8th or a bit more DK, 1/8th or a bit less Stichelhaar. Many DD's do have a higher percentage PP, others could have a bit more Griff than 25%. There are far more PP rich dogs than Griff rich dogs. I'd bet some have more DK than Griff.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:11 pm

FurIsFun wrote:
AverageGuy, Willie T-A "dropper" seems like it would be a pretty high percentage success. Other than coat, is there a drastic difference between what each breed brings to the table?"


I am not claiming deep expertise on the Droppers. I know as Willie T's post noted, that some time ago it was common for Setters and Pointers to be crossed and the offspring were called Droppers. There was a significant following of them, enough that the name was commonly recognized. The one in the photo is the only one I have ever owned. I think the quality of the two dogs bred would have the most to do with the quality of the puppies as well their dominant characteristics. Some setters have a softer mentality and more quartering ground pattern than a lot of EPs, and I think it was a desire to get some that in the offspring that made the Droppers somewhat popular. I think some people like to experiment as can be seen in the Vdog breeds were developed.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby Willie T » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:27 am

We hunted quail a lot back then. Lots of big parcels of cattle land that was rotational grazed. Mostly EP's that could scorch the ground and the droppers could hang with them. The dogs my uncle had were good, and like AG said, they had somewhat of a following. Maybe not wound quite as tight as our pointers were.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby Just-a-bird-hunter » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:26 am

One of the best dogs I ever had was 1/2 English Setter (Bigger, Grouse bred type, Pinecoble kennel) 1/2 Gordon (Springset). He was over size, close to 90 lbs, but had a great nose! One of the more interesting things about him was he LOVED retrieving ducks: I used him for jump hunting puddle duck here in southern Idaho. His coat was absolutely worthless once he was wet, so it was pretty much drop as many as you can, have them retrieve the bunch and then spend the rest of the morning cleaning the ducks (short-time) and then cleaning up him (long-time). His coat was more the that shaggy Gordon coat, and I would have him short-clipped every July/August and sometime also in the spring of the year. I didn't get him until he was 7 months old, so I always had a few, "control" issues: as long as our batteries where charged, I was fine, if not, well, let's just say the hard-headed Scotchman would come out!
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby JONOV » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:31 am

orhunter wrote:GSP/DK X DD isn't crossbred. Called, back breeding.

Ok...Would the VDD organization, here or in Germany, allow you to register the dogs at DDs? Would they not be mutts?

I have hunted with a GSP Lab mix. Both the lab and GSP were of no particular breeding as far as anyone knows. The dog is an excellent retriever, especially in searching and marking birds. I think it marks as well or better than the high dollar lab we often hunt with. She's only had limited upland exposure, but seems to hunt more like a lab than a GSP.
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby Just-a-bird-hunter » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:36 am

VDD/ German Wirehair differences as I understand them. The VDD practices very strict breeding with infusion from various lines when needed. When the German Wirehair/Drathaar (sp?) came over to this country breeders did not practice this strict line breeding and so, in the VDD's mind, they are not eligible for breeding in their system. The dogs produced would not be eligible for VDD registration but will still be eligible for NAVDHA or AKC. Here is an example of a Cross of a Cross: I had a German Shorthair X (Springer X Lab). He was built like a German Shorthair on steroids with the coat of a Lab, you really couldn't find the Springer!
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Re: Crossbreds

Postby orhunter » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:27 am

JONOV:

No, VDD wouldn't accept it because it was not an approved breeding....although the dogs produced would be the same....sort of. After the two great wars, there was a lot of breeding that went on that would never be approved today. Desperate times, desperate measures. The breed isn't desperate today so the likelihood of something like that being approved is as close to zero as you can get. Like Craig Koshyk said in his book, "they bred anything with a tail."

JABH:

"You really couldn't find the springer." I guess that shows the different breeds aren't all that different genetically. Some mix rather well, others, not so much. Has more to do with what we expect out of what we choose to breed and not what we get. We look at the results and decide if that's what we wanted. This does/should happen even when we select mates within a single breed.
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