cjm wrote:for sure, i wholeheartedly agree. but there are also general differences between a versatile breed like a PP and a specialist breed like a setter. i'm just trying to get a better sense of what those differences are from people who have experience with both. whatever i get next, i'll get a dog from a breeder who mostly hunts grouse, the dog will get the same exposure, and it will have the same owner - so the primary variable to think about is breed. my hope is that by asking for thoughts from people who have owned both i'm controlling a bit for variance attributable to owner, training, and exposure differences.
maybe another way to ask about this is - why are most cover dog champions ESs? is it primarily because that is the main breed entered? or do they have a particular ability and skillset? and if so, what is it and how is it different from a good vdog? again, understanding that there is much variation within breeds.
My first exposure to english setters was attending a Chippewa Valley Grouse Dog Association spring trial. I walked 4 braces that day while I was there I saw only one setter. That setter proceeded ran off and after about 10 to 15 minutes, but that was all it took. I knew my next dog was going to be an english setter. The pointers I saw that day were all nice and ran fine, but there is something about a fast setter in the grouse woods. To me there is no other dog that has the style and grace moving through the wood at high speeds that is exhibited by a setter. A nice brittany can be close, but they don't have a tail and I love a high crack'n tain and then 12o'clock tail on point.
Several years ago I combed through about 5 years or so of all cover dog running orders that had breed and placements available and compared the percentages of placements between the breeds. I found breeds completed, setters, pointers, GSPs, and brittanies. English setters and pointers dominated the entries, but their winning percentages based on the number of entries was roughly the same. The brittany had the highest percentage though if I remember correctly some of the trials were brittany only so that likely skewed the results.
I've competed in several cover dog trials and judged a few. I have placed pointers as well as setters. I love setters, but a good dog is a good dog. I think setters are more graceful and smooth through the cover and some have such powerful stride that will drop my jaw, but pointers seem to run with such determination like it's the dog's sole purpose is to find a bird.
All that said if the breeding worked my next puppy will be a brittany. As much as I love setters when there is a good breeding I can't pass it up. My parents raise brittanies and bred their Cover dog Champion brittany and I told them I want a puppy. This brittany has almost everything I want in my grouse dog minus a tail.