Dog Food

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:44 am

You are really into these dog food discussions on this site and others.

Here is a direct quote from the National Research Council. " It has not been demonstrated that dogs have any specific requirement for carbohydrate. However, in practical diets carbohydrates have an important role, chiefly as a source of calories and energy.

Also the Vet school at VA.Tech states with respect to puppy nutrition " Carbohydrates are a direct source of energy and are also protein-sparing nutrients." So if the puppy must convert protein to glucose to obtain energy the proteins are no longer available for the growth of body tissue. Certainly fats have a role too.

Any way I'll just kept feeding the cheap stuff with chicken by-products and grain.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby JASmith » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:57 pm

Humans can survive off chicken nuggets, fries and coke also.

It doesn't mean they should.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:51 pm

CWT wrote:You are really into these dog food discussions on this site and others.

Here is a direct quote from the National Research Council. " It has not been demonstrated that dogs have any specific requirement for carbohydrate. However, in practical diets carbohydrates have an important role, chiefly as a source of calories and energy.

Also the Vet school at VA.Tech states with respect to puppy nutrition " Carbohydrates are a direct source of energy and are also protein-sparing nutrients." So if the puppy must convert protein to glucose to obtain energy the proteins are no longer available for the growth of body tissue. Certainly fats have a role too.

Any way I'll just kept feeding the cheap stuff with chicken by-products and grain.


Right. Dog's have no needs for carbohydrates. Carbs are in the food because they are inexpensive and it allows pet food companies to use machines first developed to produce human breakfast cereals to extrude kibbles. This makes the carbohydrates "practical" for the producers as well as consumers who can pour food out of bags. It doesn't mean the carbs provide optimal nutrition. They don't. Carbs provide empty calories, and that's it. They do provide calories (in a spike and burn fashion).

The VA Tech blurb is silly. Dogs fed unprocessed food derive a majority of their energy from fats. Dogs fed meat, fat, bones, organs, fish, eggs, etc have no lack of either fat or high-quality protein in their diet. No one is suggesting dogs (or puppies) be starved of energy producing nutrients or high-quality protein. And the fact remains that carbohydrate metabolism leads directly to a spike in blood glycogen followed by a crash. Which is exactly what one who plans to go out for 2 or 3 day should seek to avoid.

Fat burning, unlike carb burning, provides the sustained energy supply you claim to seek.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:02 pm

so what about fiber to promote good intestinal health?
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:01 pm

CWT wrote:so what about fiber to promote good intestinal health?


Plant fiber is completely unnecessary when dogs eat a natural diet of meat, bones, organs, etc.

The intestinal health is much better in fact. Natural food is what canines were shaped by evolution to consume. Fresh food is rich in moisture (unlike dry kibble) and nutrient dense, so dogs eat and digest less food and produce far less waste. Huge difference in the amount of poop. Dramatic difference.

Soft edible raw bone in the proper ratios keeps stools a perfect consistency.

Fiber in dried kibble serves to bulk it out with cheap ingredients and to compensate for the junk-food nature of the rations. not unlike adding fiber to the happy meal referenced above.

To draw nutrients out of low-quality ingredients like rendered proteins, unbalanced, plant proteins, carbs, and low-quality fats means that dogs need to process a great deal of mass to get adequate nutrients. That is hard on digestive systems. It is also hard on the blood-sugar regulating system, the digestive enzyme production in the pancreas, the kidneys, and other organ systems.

Anyone can see the volume of waste in low-quality foods by looking at the volume of stool they produce.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:26 pm

I recently switched my dogs to the following food. It doesn't read well, but I saw another dog blossom on it and decided to give it a try as a prep for my pups upcoming breed show. I switched all 3 dogs for easy mealtimes, and all are looking great. The chunky monkey is fit and fabulous. I'm a little worried about the low fat content during hunting season for the pup, who burns a lot more calories than the older dog. We will see what happens and switch if needed.

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Here's my older dog, from training day last week.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby linderhof » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:26 pm

Brewers rice as the main ingredient and 12% fat content? I wouldn't be feeding that to a bird dog.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:44 pm

linderhof wrote:Brewers rice as the main ingredient and 12% fat content? I wouldn't be feeding that to a bird dog.


That goes to show ya that many DVMs aren't well versed in nutrition.
I'd bet 1000 to 1 that the "trout and salmon" are farm raised -- full of chemical crap that I wouldn't feed to my worst enemy's dog.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:22 pm

I actually didn't read the ingredients until today. It's Purina joint mobility and my dogs have never looked better. Vegas made near 100 retrieves dove opener before she got gassed, and I don't road my dogs like you field trailers.

Statistically significant doesn't necessarily add up to significant in the real world. I will continue to read the dogs.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:25 pm

linderhof wrote:Brewers rice as the main ingredient and 12% fat content? I wouldn't be feeding that to a bird dog.


This food is what bought our senior lab another hunting season. She was retired, but this food got her moving again, and she was able to retrieve a bird again last season. She wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for the pain meds and prescription foods.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:05 am

Yea that farm raised fish will kill ya. Kind of like carrots. I read that everyone that ate farmed raised fish died. Same for carrots.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby slistoe » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:53 am

CWT wrote: I read that everyone that ate farmed raised fish died. Same for carrots.
And that right there is hard facts.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby STait » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:48 pm

I supplement kibble with fresh frozen raw sardines and occasional turkey necks. Keeps the dogs teeth clean. I also add chicken quarters, venison and bear meat depending on season.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:55 am

The first ingredient is Brewers Rice (it is a nice source of fiber), but Brewer’s rice would be an example of a bulky fillers without nutrients or food value that are leftover debris from human food production, along with other forms of rice like rice gluten, rice bran and rice flour (which is not like the rice flour sold in human health food stores!). Brewers rice is a processed rice product made from the small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of rice and
is one of the many byproducts created by rice milling and is sold exclusively for dairy feed and pet food. Sadly, this ingredient is often prominent in prescription diets sold by veterinarians
Trout and Salmon = Farmed
Corn Gluten = Most likely from China
What kind of "fish oil" ? = How has it been purified to get rid of toxins and heavy metals ?
Vitamin E = is it d alpha or is it dl alpha ?
Taurine = I'll 100% guarantee you that it is from China
No guaranteed analysis of the amount of Glucosamine (and in dog food, Glucosamine is restricted to non-therapeutic amounts)

I still wouldn't feed it to my worst enemy's dog.

You say that you "read your dogs", but you don't read the label ?
Not very scientific for a doctor.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:35 pm

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