Dog Food

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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:16 pm

CWT wrote:So the reason I had asked this question is that I read a couple of articles ( one from Purina and one from a University ) that said corn supplied a sustained level of energy while rice provided more of an instant burst.

Grains are a very important part of a dogs diet. Good research shows this time and time again. Anyway I didn't post this for those grain free discussions.


Carbohydrates (in any form) cause the sort of "burst of energy followed by a crash" that you describe. Corn, rice, or other starch is immaterial.

Carbohydrates (grains included) are not an important part of a dog's diet. They are non-essential, as established by the world's leading authority on canine nutrition the National Research Council. There is nothing in carbohydrates sources that a dog needs.

Feeding carbs instead of fats cuts a dog's stamina. Carbs rapidly raise blood glycogen, and those levels just as rapidly fall under exertion. In contrast, fat metabolism delivers sustained energy. The differences are significant, and proved by studies and experience.

It is not a good idea to rapidly shift a dog to a high-fat diet as there are numerous changes that need to happen from intercellular changes in mitochondria, to the release of the correct digestive enzymes by the pancreas, to digestive issues. But fat is what canines have been shaped by evolution to use the most optimal energy source.

I feed my dog meat, fat, organs, fish, eggs, and bones. No carbs.

Corn may have more oil and protein that rice, but both these are inferior sources that count towards the nutritional totals. Corn oil is a polyunsaturated oil that is inflammatory and not good for dogs. Corn protein is imbalanced in its amino acid profile. So corn's contributions are negative vs good saturated fats and animal proteins.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby ryanr » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:18 pm

CWT wrote:So the reason I had asked this question is that I read a couple of articles ( one from Purina and one from a University ) that said corn supplied a sustained level of energy while rice provided more of an instant burst.


I'd increase the fat intake (and protein to maintain muscle) during hunting season for your dog. A dog's body is meant run on & burn fat, carbs not so much.

IMO there's a reason (and it ain't a beneficial one for your dog) that the cheaper the dog food the more corn it tends to have but to each his own. I still think increasing fat intake for dogs during hunting season is more important than increasing carbs.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:34 pm

hicntry wrote:I fed chicken leg quarters during the winter because my dog were outside. One piece of chicken a day cut their kibble in half. !0 lb bags of leg quarters ran 59 to 69 cents a lb. Dogs digest raw protein, fat and bone better than processed food.


I'm with you on the fact that dog's do better feeding on raw protein and fat (and organs & bones), I would caution that if 50% of meals comes from chicken quarters (with the rest from kibble) that you risk throwing off the calcium:phosphorus ratio that's well-established as optimal (1:2:1) and this can lead to problems. Chicken quarters are 27% bone. One should ideally feed about 10% bone to keep the calcium:phosphorus levels correct. Which means if you feed chicken quarters you should also feed about 1.5 times that amount in boneless meat (like pork, beef, lamb, or deer). Too much calcium can cause big problems. it is also good to feed 5% liver (vitamin D is critical) and 5% other organs like kidney.

Don't want to seem negative, as feeding chicken is wonderful, but there are issues with too much bone to meat that are serious issues.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:05 am

Thanks. I'll stick with some carbs from corn or rice in my feeds. I trust my sources of information better than yours.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:04 am

CWT wrote:Thanks. I'll stick with some carbs from corn or rice in my feeds. I trust my sources of information better than yours.


Then why did you ask and waste our time :?:

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:10 am

Actually I asked about switching from rice to corn. So you actually wasted my time.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Doc E » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:53 am

CWT wrote:Actually I asked about switching from rice to corn. So you actually wasted my time.


You got A LOT of good scientifically accurate answers from various posters, and you decide to ignore them all.
Thanks for wasting all of our time.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:37 am

You are welcome.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:56 am

CWT wrote:Thanks. I'll stick with some carbs from corn or rice in my feeds. I trust my sources of information better than yours.


I'd love to see the sources, as every scientific study I've ever seen (and that's a good many) clearly shows that fat metabolism is a far superior energy source for dogs than carbohydrates. The evidence is unequivocal and unambiguous.

Further, the National Research Council, the undisputed world authority on canine nutrition, says carbohydrates are not essential.

So please present your evidence and sources of information. Love to see it. I'm guessing Purina marketing department.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:03 am

That would be a waste of my time and yours too.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:17 am

CWT wrote:That would be a waste of my time and yours too.


So you have nothing. Not surprised.

I don't understand why you ask a question when you are not interested in informed responses?

I'd love to see a study that shows carbohydrates provide superior (or even equal) stamina to dogs compared with fat-burning, but I know that no such studies exist. The truth is that superiority of fat-burning has been demonstrated in a myriad of studies on sled dogs, hunting dogs, and greyhounds.

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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:44 am

I am just a dumb ol' edgeumacated country redneck from North Carolina. I know I could never win a argument with you nor do I even have a desire to try.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:04 pm

Here ya go: Rice and corn are similar. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18 ... ergy%20dog

Just because grains are non-essential doesn't make them detrimental either (in appropriate proportions).
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Re: Dog Food

Postby CWT » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:48 am

Thanks for the link.
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Re: Dog Food

Postby Spy Car » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:35 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Here ya go: Rice and corn are similar. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18 ... ergy%20dog

Just because grains are non-essential doesn't make them detrimental either (in appropriate proportions).


The linked study shows that both brewer's rice and corn cause a very high post-prandial glucose response (post-prandial being a fancy way of saying post-meal) and that is a huge negative.

This study reinforces the well-documented veterinary literature that shows carbohydrates quickly drive up blood glycogen (for a burst of energy), but that that energy is not sustainable. Diametrically different response to when dogs burn fat, which causes a long slow and steady supply of glucose to the muscles and cells, which maximizes sustained stamina and aerobic capacity.

Non-essential means there are no nutrients in carbohydrates that are necessary for good canine health. Running dogs on high carbohydrate rations significantly reduces their energy levels. This is unequivocally shown in numerous scientific studies.

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