Opinions on HRC Tests/Title

[bill10979]

Got a test in 3 wks. We are definately at seasoned level, or intermediate level I believe-blinds/marks etc. However, we never did the "started" test to accumulate the 5 points. They only let you run 1 test per day. Do I do the started test for the points and follow up w/seasoned later this fall or go for seasoned test. I plan to go all the way and finish her. I believe that she is that good. Looking for input on the best and fastest way to Finish her up. thanks

[ME]

RUn the seasoned as you will learn how to handle the situations that come up in a test using the gun and such.

Like things to do if the dog doesn't swing because they threw a breaking bird 6 ft in front of you right in the water.

Started means nothing..

seasoned is okay but not finished..

Finished is were it is at..

Lay a good foundation and you can make it..

My dog did fine running as the test dog this weekend. I told the handlers now if a pointer can do it you know it can be done... Most of them had already seen Caleb run...Beat the other test dog, a BL that is handled by a guy who had a 1000 pt dog. We had a competion on the fewest whistles to the blind.. I won on both land and water...

[bill10979]

Me, I think youre right. We have 2 weekends to train- and I think we can do fine in seasoned test-the diversions scare me a little-although I can resend her to retreive the dropped bird if it happens and I know shell do that. My Bitchs Grandmother(DD) was a FINISHED titled HRC- dog, hope it runs in the family.
Mine seems to handle real well, and mark well. At times-not often, she has selective hearing, we are working on that! I have to get her to rely on me more and trust me more to do a Finished title-she thinks she knows it all and where the birds are or should be and may disregard a cast!
Early season opens here Sept. 1, hope to get alot of reps from the blind.

[ME]

HRCH DIXI VOM NORTHLAND

So this must be the grandmother to your dog..

[DD4ME]

Bill,

I'm also for skipping the started and going right to seasoned in the HRC venue.

I will toss out a caution. The wires are bred to be able to hunt independently. To be able to do a JGHV or NAVHDA duck search has its place in the duck blind and can get a bird in the bag that may otherwise be lost. Being able to take direction is also a plus if you see a fall that the dog did not. The tricky part is to keep it in balance.

I got into the HRC stuff as part of preperation for NAVHDA's Invite. He's always been a consistent VG in the JGHV tests, (10 in HZP, 4 in VGP) or 4 in NAVHDA UT Duck Search dog. But now that we have trained for the blind he will not always shift gears to an independent search when I want him to, instead sometimes looks for direction.

Make sure you don't overdue the control - esp if you're going to test in the JGHV breed tests (If I recall correctly yours is a young DD). Use a very different release for a search and for a blind.

ME may add some more on how he keys the dog as to what the task at hand is.

Have fun with the HRC stuff and be prepared for lots of questions about what kind of dog is that? My standard answer is that some Germans wanted a hunting dog that would eat anything so they bred a shorthair to a goat...

dave

[bill10979]

Me-Her name was Allie-but the kennel name and pet name are different could be the 1 you threw out- I can try to find out. I know that she was the first titled Finished dog (DD) or GWP in the Canadian HRC Club System. I think her sister was titled Finished as well. Supposed to be a neat dog-would do 200 yd blinds-(alot for DDs) and take angles on casts etc.

DD4me-Are you callin my dog a Billy Goat? I got to tell you that I laughed reading that and will probably use that in the future. I ve decribed mine as a Hi Chow. You know, A cross between an African Hyeana and a chihuwauwa.
That was pretty good advice- I dont know how I should separate the search-which she is great at-the judges told me so!, anda directional blind-to trust me. Could use some help if anyone has any.
See ya.

[ME]

Teach the pattern blinds so the dog runs straight through cover when you give whatever command you are going to give..

Teach angled backs on land in a baseball style drill and use a different command for each direction to keep the dog from getting confused..

Teach the swim by..

When doing water blinds don't correct her line if she is even close to the line to the blind. Let her find it as long as she took off the direction you sent her. Don't use much suction at first..

Do drills in the water that if the dog takes the cast it will find a bird..

Hard to explain in writing..

Did a duck search a month ago and the dog tore it up as usual..Then ran then ran him as the test dog and he took all but one cast. It can be done..

Send me a PM with your # and I will tell you what I learned training for it with out ruining the independence..

Bill her sister is not a HRCH there are only 3 GWP/DD HRCH's

HRCH DIXI VOM NORTHLAND Female

HRCH RUBIN VON PHENOMENON Male

HRCH CHUMP CHANGE'S PRODIGY CALEB MH Male

Unless she got it in the last year at the age of 18 which I doubt..

[bill10979]

ME: Thanks for the input. I will email you as I can benefit from your experience here-I am new to the retreiving testing, will evaluate by Wed. to run seasoned or not. I believe that she is there no problem. The club president is going to work with us. The VDD is huge on independence and finding game, so I need to get back a little control-she is force fetched and is an extremely reliable and great swimmer, but they stress Lines and downwind using nose isnt recommended. Like I said the diversions might throw her a little but maybe not. I know I worry too much sometimes.

My Bitchs Grandmother is probably deceased now-her dam is about 11 now. I will get her info and post it, the sister I spoke of was my Bitchs Grandmothers sister- 2 in same litter. Again, going back at least 14-15+ years. Breeder said it was 1st Canadian HRC Titled DD Dog. How can I research this, I will go off of her German Reg papers-is there a database to research? Thanks

[bill10979]

I am training tomorrow with a pro trainer, retired army guy -hes got 12 Labs and pups on the ground. Wish I was him and could work dogs 7 days a week! Hes gonna help me evaluate my bitch for the seasoned test. Said he saw DDs in Germany back in the 60s-I said what are messing with Labs for?!!! I hope we get to the point where shes finished and i can win some money against the retriever folks with my part Billy Goat! I think its possible, shes a duck hunting terror, just needs refinement and polish-and to use me occasionally more than her nose-which rarely lets her down. I think that a search command will help greatly as will "mark" . I ve always just given her a line to guide her and she knows not to return without the duck, but her search can be quite independent

ME-I bet you could make a living bettin w/ your Ugly Dog! Itd be like taking candy from a baby/ Beat em at their own game. Have a good one.

[ME]

HR SCHROEDER'S MAINE HEIR 9/28/1986
HR RNR FLAG 9/26/1992
HR KELLY PERLE VOM KERVINSHOF 9/26/1993
HR ALI VOM BACKWATER 8/15/1993
HR ELLA VOM HINTERWALD 5/28/1995
HR CHUMP CHANGES NOTHIN TO LOSE 6/14/2003


HRCH DIXI VOM NORTHLAND 4/14/1990
HRCH RUBIN VON PHENOMENON 10/21/1989
HRCH CHUMP CHANGE'S PRODIGY CALEB MH 6/19/2004

These are all the GWP/DD's that have earned titles in HRC and the dates earned so get out your pedigree and see..

If you think that you will make money betting these guys you will loose.. There are some flawless dogs out there running..

Caleb's biggest problem is he wants to pick up all the marks at once.. He will head towards one mark and then halfway there turn to another. It is not a fault since he didn't start a search of the area for the mark but it is not the best thing for the dog to do.. 6 years of letting him run how he wanted to pick up marks I am not going to cure..

But he does handle as good or better than most of the finished dogs on land and water..

[bill10979]

ME-You Do your homework Man! I like you.
ALI VOM BACKWATER was the name. That is my Bitchs Grandmother! She was supposedly awesome-any dog w/those titles is damn good and a bearded dog that can do it all-track deer, kill cats/coons, hunt birds/ducks all day is that much more valuable to its owner. What is the difference between the HRCH and HR Title-Is it points?
My breeder said he did very well in tests where the dog was marked and then reeled away into the reeds. Said 98% of dogs swam in circles-his dog-my sire-and 1 other dog could finish the test. Obviously everyone thought this wasnt fair. Do they still do this in tests? It would be to our advantage.

[ME]

The difference is points..

To get an HR title you need 40 points.

To get the HRCH you need 100.

You get 10 for every seasoned pass and you can only use 40 points earned in seasoned towards the HRCH title.

You get 15 for every finished pass.. You will need 4 seasoned passes and 4 finished passes to get a CH..


If ALI VOM BACKWATER was so great why didn't she earn a HRCH? If she could do 200 yard blinds then I can't see a reason for he not to get a CH..

You don't need to do the reel in thing.. Last test the ducks moved so much due to the wind that the dogs were finding them 30 yards from where they marked them and they drifted into the weeds..

[bill10979]

ALI-Not sure why she didnt finish out to 100 pts. A few more tests and it wouldve done. I can see ow after training, that there is a fine line between handler overdepence and a controlled search. I bet many DD owners discourage it. The VDD Utility Tests stress an independent search-its a test item for 10 minutes in a lake-a dog that pops isnt going to cut it. Whats the best way or command to help?
We just got back and had a ball. i have an appreciation for that control i saw by several titled HRCH Labs. They were good. Real good. But they are handler dependent mostly-No thinking or searching allowed. I had a few problems w/Greta. She broke 2 or 3x-out of about 30 marks from a launcher-granted 20 other dogs were barking and going nuts in their kennels, but we still have some obedience work with offleash. Her drive was every bit as good as what I saw from the top dog there HRCH LAB-said hes been offered 35k-bred him 41x this yr at 1k/per. Impressive dog. Other problem was she has a comfort range of about 65-70 yds-normal hunting conditions-problems getting her past that on blinds-she goes into search pattern and quarters as shes been trained-but it is workable-she casts well-a small ravine did throw her off line a bit-more practice should help. It is alot of fun and I hope to at least get the HR Title if not Finish her, if were good enough and I have the time.

[bill10979]

Got a nice email today from the gentleman I trained w/yesterday. He thanked me for introducing him to another breed of dog and said he was impressed with what he saw. This coming from a guy that has worked hundreds of Line bred Elhew EPs in his younger days, and now trains & trials about a dozen Labs full time-owns several that are HRCH Titled. Said yesterday how nasty he heard those drahthaars were, as Greta was licking all over his face! Offleash she is great, try to come in the house, and you might be missing an arm!
I think i can solve our problem. Basically I can Utility her 1st and then Title her retrieving, OR better yet occasionally drill by releasing a duck into the cattails and tell her "Get the Duck" as my search command and not have her over dependent. I have to spell D U C K around her as I do C A T or B U N N Y or she just goes ape sh*t. That word alone kicks her into drive. I will start increasing her lengths on marks to 100yds or so to extend her range, and incorporate blinds along w/that. The launcher and dummies w/streamers are nice training tools that I hadnt used prior to yesterday. Or even an Ecollar. She was about as obedient as the dogs we saw yesterday-he had to "nick" his a few times, I had to raise my voice a little.
Man it was hot yesterday got up to 94, she held up well w/water,rest and shade when not working in the AM, but that heat isnt her strong suit. We could be in better shape-I work about 60/hrs week its tough-will try more mountain biking off hours. He roads his dogs 8hrs/day on an ATV as a county surveyor and it shows. They looked to be in incredible shape-100% ripped, I can say that she held up as well if not better than his-she got the bulk of the work and came back for more. At best, I might work dogs 2x/wk and then do fetching drills 10 minutes or so every day, so we got some work to do to get in better shape. I might be hooked on this HRC stuff, and looking forward to testing here in a few weeks. Duck/Dove season starts Sept 1 here-hope yall enjoy your opener-we hope to see some ducks-but the standing corn might be a problem getting em to our blind. We'll see.

[DD4ME]

Bill,

If I were to start over with the blind stuff I would make sure I had a firm foundation on the land with force to pile and lining drills before I worked water. I went right to the water and later had to backup.

For the search without the duck, search behind the duck, independent forest search, NAVHDA duck search and Btr I release dog with "where's the duck?"

For blinds I set him up with a hand signal and command "mark" then send him with "back!" (Not real original...)

Hope this helps,

dave