WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

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WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby SERE Nate » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:30 am

My pup is now 11 weeks old. He is doing great with HERE and I've started working on WHOA with him this last week or so. Started off with him coming out of the kennel, and now I have him WHOA and I'll take about 5 or 10 steps away from him and call him HERE and have a treat ready for him. Every once in a while he will creep and I'll move him back to his mark. He almost always will freeze for a second or so, and then he sits and waits patiently for me to call him to me.

Is this something that I should start correcting now?

I have seen the suitcase handle used with the lead rope as well as the trash can method for Whoa and steadiness. Is my pup too young for this?
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby orhunter » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:44 pm

I don’t see it as a problem. When I tell a dog whoa or stay, I don’t care what it does as long as it doesn’t go anywhere. But, if you or a family member is also teaching sit, I’d probably discontinue that.

Try teaching whoa in different situations so the pup doesn’t develop a routine. I do it when out on leashed walks around the neighborhood. Whoa, (wupp) before crossing a street or for no reason at all. Don’t allow the pup to move without being released.
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby PL_Guy » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:36 pm

What do you use "whoa" for as far as hunting functionality is concerned?

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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby SERE Nate » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:59 pm

orhunter wrote:I don’t see it as a problem. When I tell a dog whoa or stay, I don’t care what it does as long as it doesn’t go anywhere. But, if you or a family member is also teaching sit, I’d probably discontinue that.

Try teaching whoa in different situations so the pup doesn’t develop a routine. I do it when out on leashed walks around the neighborhood. Whoa, (wupp) before crossing a street or for no reason at all. Don’t allow the pup to move without being released.


No one in the house is teaching sit, stay, down, etc. At this point its just HERE and WHOA, along with some beginning retrieves with his name as release, and then DROP IT when I take the bumper or toy from him.

With 2-3 feet of snow in the yard and every field for 50 miles, its made outside training difficult. I did take him out on a snowshoe trip and he did a good job keeping up as I broke the trail and then he led us back to the truck following the original trail.
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby Chadwick » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:00 pm

Maybe you left out some of the details, but be careful about recalling the pup from whoa and then rewarding the pup for the recall. You are building in anticipation of the recall and you are diminishing the value of whoa. I would expect that recalling from whoa and rewarding the recall is contributing to the creeping.

You should be stepping away from the pup and then stepping back to the pup and giving it a reward while it is following the whoa command. It is more important when training whoa to work on moving completely around the pup while it stays in the whoa position than working on adding distance. When you are working on adding distance to whoa the way you are doing it, the dog always has a picture of you being in front of it and then facing it, which will almost never be the case when you actually use the whoa command.

I am assuming you are using treats, but not actually using a clicker or marker word.

I focus on teaching the pup whoa, sit, recall, kennel, go to your mat, and down. When the dog has an understanding of all of them, I mix the commands up. Reward the pup for doing the right thing and ignore if the pup makes a mistake. Dogs do what works. Soon the pup will pay really good attention and the mistakes will diminish.
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby SERE Nate » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:06 pm

You are correct, I only sometimes reward the WHOA, but always the HERE. My mistake and I will make sure to do the walk around as you suggest, reward the WHOA, then walk away and recall with reward.

I use treats and praise. Try to mix it up so he isn't totally food dependent.
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby Sooty42 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:48 am

If my pup sits when on whoa I lift up his hind end and then pet/stroke his belly with one hand and lift his head up with the other hand or lead (if he's on one) saying whoa periodically. I will also do this sometimes even if he hasn't sat down. I also give gentle praise while he is on whoa. I then give him a release word, I use free (I use to say ok for release word, but I read that it's to common of word when speaking). I'll whoa/release up to 6 times per session. These ideas come from James Spencer's book Point! Training The All Season Birddog.

The only time I've used food for whoa training is at meal time. I use treats for about everything else though.
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby SwitchGrassWPG » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:44 am

From whoa, you should be using a release command. Use this only when you are near the dog, not from a distance. Try to use something you don't typically use in normal conversation. Many I know use "Free"...
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:08 pm

SERE Nate wrote: Is my pup too young for this?


That was my thought. I guess I'd teach "sit" or "whoa" but maybe not both at this age. Some think "sit" to be a superfluous command and interferes with the teaching of "whoa" because sitting becomes the default position for any perceived pressure, and teaching whoa often is done with some pressure (jerk on check cord, e-collar, etc.). Personally I think both commands are useful in the overall scheme of things and, because "sit" is so easy to teach, I do it right away. In my training it becomes a foundation (and starting point) for "down", "stay", "heel", "come", etc. and never had it interfere with the teaching of whoa. To teach these commands you want the dog's attention (and facing you) and whoa involves freezing his position no matter which direction he's facing.
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby twistedoak » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:48 pm

what sooty42 said

whoa means stop where you are
the dog can look around , it can reposition its feet

i origonaly taught whoa on walks through the neighborhood.
when the sidewalk meets the street ,i would whoa , reposition if needed ,then walk ahead and check for traffic , then release her to cross.
it progressed to the point she will wait at any street curb for permission to cross uncommanded.
i was then easily able transfer the known whoa command to hunting when training began
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby JONOV » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:33 pm

I don't think I'd worry about it...If he ever starts to sit on point correct and work on it at that point...
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby Hunters Edge » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:51 am

Bruce Schwartz wrote:
SERE Nate wrote: Is my pup too young for this?


That was my thought. I guess I'd teach "sit" or "whoa" but maybe not both at this age. Some think "sit" to be a superfluous command and interferes with the teaching of "whoa" because sitting becomes the default position for any perceived pressure, and teaching whoa often is done with some pressure (jerk on check cord, e-collar, etc.). Personally I think both commands are useful in the overall scheme of things and, because "sit" is so easy to teach, I do it right away. In my training it becomes a foundation (and starting point) for "down", "stay", "heel", "come", etc. and never had it interfere with the teaching of whoa. To teach these commands you want the dog's attention (and facing you) and whoa involves freezing his position no matter which direction he's facing.


This is very similar to my training or initial training very good post and information.

Why you might ask?

I will get to that question later. Where the similarities end, is I do not teach stay, no need the dog once a command is given has to wait for either another command or release no exceptions. Once this becomes habit, then turns to behavior.

On the sit command I walk away, then back to pup sitting and release him/her. Then I sometimes give treat but always ALWAYS reward with praise and get or allow the dog to get excited and enjoy the praise. I start extending the time away from pup going around couch, even going out of sight, if the move I correct replace, no praise and repeat, only praise and sometimes a treat with successful obeying commands no exceptions. The creeping maybe caused from calling her she is confused because if she moves prior to calling I am pretty sure you reinforce the whoa before you call her or during her/his sequence. So break it up in smaller learning brackets teach here a different way when she/he is around the house for no reason give her come command and praise if she obeys, if not reinforce command.

So once the pup learns sit and assuming it has to stay until you return, you are in affect teaching the pup the foundation of command, wait for command or release.

On the whoa command a good way to use it once play fetch is completed and pup is excited to play the game of fetch 3 times max. This should be done in an area the pup has to return object down a hall or pull out the couch away from the wall, no place for pup to run off with object in mouth make it that he has to return to you. This becomes habit then behavior. Do it several times a day though just allow hour or so between game/training. Once the pup is inthuised or love or biting at the bit to play fetch it is the time I introduce whoa.

I now say whoa put hand palmed out toward his face quickly as I give the command. This is not only teaching the pup verbal but hand command. If he sits you can easily put your hand under and bring his belly up and repeat command. Then throw whatever you have been fetching. Pup will take off, be prepared to stop him using pups collar he is wearing. Restack him and repeat whoa, now he may squirm or not pups eyes will be riveted to bumper/play toy whatever you have been using as soon as pup obeys command stops pulling on collar and is standing on whoa, I repeat as soon as, give fetch command and release pup. Will not take long for pup to learn whoa. He/she is anticipating if it stands it will be given an opportunity to get the object that was thrown. Once pup learns command then just as you lenghtened the time on the sit command you gradually lenghten the time to 3 seconds before saying fetch. I also give pups name before command many times pup breaks on name before fetch I allow it, pup is anticipating command and I would rather have it retrieving on it's name. All the above methods use Pavlov theory in using anticipation to teach habit then becomes bahavior.

Now to answer that question. Sit is used in not only if you hunt waterfowl in the future but if you decide to test dog in the future with NAVHDA or similar test formats. It also is useful in the home.

Best of luck with your pup. I hope not only my info but others who have posted help
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Re: WPG PUP SITS ON WHOA.....

Postby Willie T » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:08 pm

Nate, I simplify, especially with a little puppy. If I am teaching here, I work on here. If I am teaching whoa I teach whoa. Inadvertently you are teaching your pup to anticipate here after whoa. For me each command is taught completely independent of other commands. Then a release command is given. With a pup that young don't test, just teach and simplify. Down the road when it has them I will mix some things as well as link some commands. With your puppy less is more.
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