E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

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E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby ejm4 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:21 pm

When do you train with just vibration or Stimulation?
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby orhunter » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:36 pm

Vibration is a substitute for a verbal command or to remind the dog someone is watching.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby Duckdon » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:47 pm

Always e-stim. Never vibration.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby PL_Guy » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:12 pm

Depends on the dog and its reaction to the collar.

I have had a dog which was very sensitive and I only used vibrate. I also use e-stim as a cue (command) for a desired behavior - in particular for stop and stand still (a non-verbal whoa if you insist), but that's another story.

The e-collar with variable stimulation, tone, vibrate is without doubt the most versatile training tool devised by man.

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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby Densa44 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:19 pm

Mine don't have vibration but I hunt/train with 4 dogs, so I use the "beep" to recall individual dogs. It works very well. If I whistle they all come and I don't want that, I just want the dog that is farthest away to start back toward me. If she sees the other dogs working a bird, she joins in or backs.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:34 pm

Duckdon wrote:Always e-stim. Never vibration.
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+1. Let them get away with it once, they'll try it twice.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby Constructeur » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:47 pm

I trained the vibe button to be a positive thing (It's separate on my Dogtra collar). Super long retrieve in a windy field, or across the river? That get's a positive vibe as soon as the bird is in his mouth. That sort of thing.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby bhennessy » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:14 am

That’s interesting Constructeur, positive reinforcement from the vibration? It’s definitely negative for my dogs. I’m assuming because they associate it with the shock that would often follow as I increased the pressure to enforce a command. They clearly don’t like the vibration any more than they like the electricity.

I’ve got one dog who only needs a shot of vibration to get him to respond immediately in almost all cases when he’s distracted. I know him well enough so that when he’s too distracted to listen, I skip the vibration and go right to electricity. My theory is that I want to use the least amount of negative reinforcement as possible, and vibration is one step below shocking. That said, it’s not too useful on my other dog, yet but I’ve got the collar set on vibration so he’ll associate it with the shock and eventually get to where vibration will work 90+ percent of the time.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby Constructeur » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm

My dog is a total meathead, and we have to do everything the hard way. I just thought training vibe as a positive was a way to break that up for him. It started when he was young and we would just toss bumpers, he'd retrieve the bumper, get lots of vocal praise and a vibration. We built on it from there.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:03 pm

It was over 30 years ago when I started using TriTronics Ecollars. The model I had back then required you to predetermine the level of stimulation via a key that plugged into the collar. Low enough level key for corrections around birds was not hot enough to stop some other heat of the moment behaviors. The model had 3 buttons, Red, Yellow, Green. The Red made a audible buzz sound then delivered the stimulation. The Yellow made the same audible buzz but no stimulation. And the Green made a distinctly different audible high pitched tone. At the time I used the yellow alot to turn the dog when he got to pushing running pheasants too fast. It was a way to get some cooperation without resorting to stimulation around birds with a key that would have been more stimulation than appropriate for that situation. And similar to Constructeur's use of vibrate, I associated the Green button tone with praise and used it alot as the dog retrieved a shot bird back to me. It kept him upbeat and compliant. Of course the instant variable stimulation tools we have now are better, but the point is you can use different tones or vibration to associate both negative and positive feedback to the dog, just need to be consistent in your initial teaching and thereafter. Same as with any training ques and corrections.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:31 pm

Constructeur wrote:My dog is a total meathead, and we have to do everything the hard way. I just thought training vibe as a positive was a way to break that up for him. It started when he was young and we would just toss bumpers, he'd retrieve the bumper, get lots of vocal praise and a vibration. We built on it from there.


I don't like the collar telling the dog he's good. Nor do I think a dog needs any praise until the job is completed. When a dog completes the task, I want him to know I AM THE ONE PRAISING HIM, not some mechanical collar. I want the correction to come from me and the praise to come from me.

Dog's need no praise WHILE COMPLETING A TASK, only when it is complete.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby orhunter » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:29 pm

Fixed it for you GH...... “A dog should recieve no praise till the job is completed correctly.”
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:07 pm

orhunter wrote:Fixed it for you GH...... “A dog should recieve no praise till the job is completed correctly.”



Yup, that is correct. Thanks!!!
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby Constructeur » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:44 pm

GONEHUNTIN' wrote:
I don't like the collar telling the dog he's good. Nor do I think a dog needs any praise until the job is completed. When a dog completes the task, I want him to know I AM THE ONE PRAISING HIM, not some mechanical collar. I want the correction to come from me and the praise to come from me.

Dog's need no praise WHILE COMPLETING A TASK, only when it is complete.




My dog knows who is holding the controller. At home all I have to do is pick it up and he will stop acting the fool whether the collar is on him or not.
Only praise while the task is done? Haven't you ever told a kid they were on the right path while midway in writing an essay? That didn't mess the final product up did it?

Too many know it all's on here.
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Re: E Collar —> Stimulation or Vibration

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:07 pm

Dog's are different than kids by a long margin. The danger is, if you tell a dog "good dog" before the task is complete, you break his concentration and he may then choose not to complete the task. A correction then has to be given and ruins that experience for the dog. The very fact that your dog behaves with the collar on and not off shows you have made him a collar wise dog.

There are many people on this board with a ton of experience that aren't "know it all's", just try to make sure people get the correct help.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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