HERE training?

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Re: HERE training?

Postby hicntry » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:23 am

GONEHUNTIN' wrote:We use HERE differently. When I command a dog HERE I DO expect him to come all the way to me unless I stop him but not to heel, though most of the time they do willingly and I certainly do not discourage that.


GH, I am not really sure how you mean "we use here differently". I suspect most people that tell their dog here also expect the dog to come to them and not over there some where. Interesting thread. It has been my experience that the call word doesn't make much difference because a dog can be taught to come to anything. A click with your tongue, pursing the lips, slapping your thigh with your hand.....just about anything will get them to come....if they want to. If I catch them looking at me and hold my hand out they jump up and come running.
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Re: HERE training?

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:07 pm

I was referencing Kiger. When I command HERE I want to see that dog close to me unless I stop him, not just coming within 50' of me. Here means "get your ass HERE and now."
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: HERE training?

Postby Kiger2 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:50 pm

GH,
Just different terminology.

For me "heel" means come all the way to heel. "Here" means get back to my area. When hunting or taking a walk, I just want a command that I can use to get them back with me but not at heel. Back to my area may mean within gun range, or back in front of me when we are on a walk or on the beach. Dog is required to come back, just not to heel.
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Re: HERE training?

Postby crackerd » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:45 pm

Kiger2 wrote:GH,
Just different terminology.

For me "heel" means come all the way to heel. "Here" means get back to my area. When hunting or taking a walk, I just want a command that I can use to get them back with me but not at heel. Back to my area may mean within gun range, or back in front of me when we are on a walk or on the beach. Dog is required to come back, just not to heel.


Kiger, at the risk of sending around the bend those here who profess to know all about "handling," tell 'em how you use the "Here!" command when a dog's gotten off-line en route to a blind retrieve :angel: :bday: :crazyeyes:

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Re: HERE training?

Postby hicntry » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:22 pm

Curious,.....is "come" trained as a position or an action? How about "here"? Is simply saying "come here" confusing the dog for the dog because trainers have their own terminology?
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Re: HERE training?

Postby crackerd » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:51 pm

Retrievers are trained to the verbal command "Here" which is then overlaid with a whistle command (three blasts) which eventually gives way through repetition to no command needed at all once a dog's made a retrieve. (Where else is it going to go with the retrieve but back to the trainer's side?) With the exception as I noted above of the dog sent on a blind retrieve and having gone off-line - Kiger or GH can tell you why it's then wise to revert to the verbal command "Here" instead of using the synonymous whistle command.

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Re: HERE training?

Postby Kiger2 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:16 am

MG,


Well, For clarity for the audience, if the dog is offline on a blind, in this case gone too far since we are talking about "Here", I would whistle sit, give the appropriate cast and given the distance, would use voice 'here" with a hand signal, 45 degree down angle to my side depending on which way the dog was off line or a multiple whistle with the same cast. in other words an "angle here" as opposed to an "angle back". If i needed the dog to come straight too me, hand signal would be both hands at 45 degree down angle.

I use "here" for this because I don't want the dog to come all the way to me. I use "heel " for that. If I need the dog to angle in and I give him a "heel" command, that would be confusing for the dog.

In general, as I use it, "Heel" voice or whistle can be discontinued as the dog gains experience, but again I caution people to not take your eyes off pup or neglect giving a "heel" command or whistle signal for heel when they have a bird. You ask where else is the dog going to go with the bird??? In my experience, they will go someplace you never anticipated or maybe just stop and eat the bird or play with it. Ive seen them go enough places that you will rarely see me turn my back on a dog when he has a bird. Just one example, years ago I often ran into a dog at hunt tests. If there was water anywhere near after the dog got the bird, the dog was in it. Never dropped the bird , but never missed the water either. And actually another example. Day 4 of chukar hunting and the dog is tired, its feet are sore etc.... You send the dog 300 yards down the canyon to pick up a bird. He may decide that he needs a break. Better give him a reminder.

I was taught and I think it has merit that if you know where the bird is, you hit the dog with your "heel" command voice or whistle, right before he gets the bird. This is so he gets the command and is reminded where he is supposed to go next.

Food for thought. A simple "here" command is a form of handling. We are teaching the dog a language, its not english, its "handling". Where we use words (a distinct sound) and body movement to communicate with the dog. With the right training it is a work of art to watch a dog being "handled".

MG, Is this what you were looking for?
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Re: HERE training?

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:19 am

hicntry wrote:Curious,.....is "come" trained as a position or an action? How about "here"? Is simply saying "come here" confusing the dog for the dog because trainers have their own terminology?


Doesn't confuse the dog if you add SOB after the command. :D
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: HERE training?

Postby crackerd » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:53 am

Don't think anybody could go wrong with a working gundog in following the approach what you've outlined above, Kiger.

Also worth interjecting for those who might not be aware that trained retrievers - or retrieving gundogs - may often return with a retrieve on land even faster than they've gone out for a mark. A "here" whistle might expedite that but in general they're in hurry-up mode anticipating getting sent for the next retrieve.

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Re: HERE training?

Postby LongHammer » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:34 pm

I carry a whiteboard and a marker and issue all my commands in written form to eliminate the confusion between here, hear, heel, heal, come and....
you get the point.. :lol:
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Re: HERE training?

Postby Kiger2 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:40 pm

Longhammer, You must be the Carl Rove of dog training!
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Re: HERE training?

Postby crackerd » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:20 am

Or the Pet Psychic!
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Re: HERE training?

Postby LongHammer » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:34 am

There are no blinds if you can just draw him a map of where the bird fell. You guys make things way more complicated then it needs to be.
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Re: HERE training?

Postby ANick » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:09 pm

Okay then!!

Guys, you got me on this one. I'd glanced in much earlier in the thread to see, 'heel or here'... and watched it got to two pages. I finally looked back in to see what kind of blood-letting was going on.. and I find, amid some minor expected variations of definition, the big difference in retriever world use vs .. well, whatever world I'm in.

Oh.

Retriever world, 'Here' is as much or more a directional reference, 'toward me' as anything, if I'm reading Kiger's right. Hence, the differences in page 1.

I may also borrow this one from 3ds note, "FWIW I use "here" for recall and "fuβ" German for foot (heel is "follow by foot", it's their command to heel. It's not to be German or cool. It's because it has a soft sound that doesn't carry when we're stalking or heeling under evaluation. ..."

All this goodness in one thread?! Not a blood letting?! I'm even fairly sure I'm not dreaming! :)

FWIW, for the pup and self, 'Here', is completed successfully when Herself is parked on her butt right in front and facing me at easy reach distance. 'Heel' is left side normally, by indication. 'Come', is a little different, general meaning is 'get/stay close in'.

If we're breaking off doing whatever, say headed back to the truck, 'Come', is a recall to a close proximity. It's typically used while I'm in motion also. It gives her a bit of latitude to poke around but close. Moving off from a, 'Here' or retrieve, it fills the gap between a 'heel' and some other send action.

Nice thread gents..
Nick

Kiger2 wrote:MG,


Well, For clarity for the audience, if the dog is offline on a blind, in this case gone too far since we are talking about "Here", I would whistle sit, give the appropriate cast and given the distance, would use voice 'here" with a hand signal, 45 degree down angle to my side depending on which way the dog was off line or a multiple whistle with the same cast. in other words an "angle here" as opposed to an "angle back". If i needed the dog to come straight too me, hand signal would be both hands at 45 degree down angle.

I use "here" for this because I don't want the dog to come all the way to me. I use "heel " for that. If I need the dog to angle in and I give him a "heel" command, that would be confusing for the dog.

In general, as I use it, "Heel" voice or whistle can be discontinued as the dog gains experience, but again I caution people to not take your eyes off pup or neglect giving a "heel" command or whistle signal for heel when they have a bird. You ask where else is the dog going to go with the bird??? In my experience, they will go someplace you never anticipated or maybe just stop and eat the bird or play with it. Ive seen them go enough places that you will rarely see me turn my back on a dog when he has a bird. Just one example, years ago I often ran into a dog at hunt tests. If there was water anywhere near after the dog got the bird, the dog was in it. Never dropped the bird , but never missed the water either. And actually another example. Day 4 of chukar hunting and the dog is tired, its feet are sore etc.... You send the dog 300 yards down the canyon to pick up a bird. He may decide that he needs a break. Better give him a reminder.

I was taught and I think it has merit that if you know where the bird is, you hit the dog with your "heel" command voice or whistle, right before he gets the bird. This is so he gets the command and is reminded where he is supposed to go next.

Food for thought. A simple "here" command is a form of handling. We are teaching the dog a language, its not english, its "handling". Where we use words (a distinct sound) and body movement to communicate with the dog. With the right training it is a work of art to watch a dog being "handled".

MG, Is this what you were looking for?
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Re: HERE training?

Postby Fun Dog » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:18 am

When I first started training my dog “Here” meant to come to me and “Heel” meant to walk by my side. As the years went on the two sort of blended into one. If I said “Here” I expected the dog to come all the way into heel position. If I said “Heel”, I also expected the dog to come to heel position. If I just want the dog to change direction or check with me, I just say the dogs name.
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