DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby GFORCE » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:43 am

In Indiana it is now illegal to let your dog get cold. Maybe this is some "trainers"
are being preemptive.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:49 am

Wonder how they'll determine a dog is cold.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby ryanr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:05 pm

Hard to know for sure just from photos but your pup's coat looks like more like my 5yr old slick's coat. Nothing wrong with a coat if you choose but I'd only use it if the temps are truly cold, like well below freezing particularly if there,is,frigid North wind to boot. For the most part you likely won't need it. My pup shivered a bit the very first cold snap but now she's used to it and thankfully has a real good dense, probably medium harsh coat.

Joan Bailey's "How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves" is indeed excellent. I'm reading and following it quite a bit. It basically preaches repeated conditioning and exposure for the pup's first year rather than lots of formal training. It's always nice to start doing that a little younger but don't worry too much about being behind the 8 ball. You can start doing the conditioning work now and you and pup will likely be fine.

My pup's first bird exposure was to chukars, didn't have quail at the time. I plucked some primaries and let pup search it out. She was very interested in the scent and bird but was cautious and didn't want to get too close. That was the first time but she pounced on and carried the dead one I dropped for her. The next time I used a live chukar she was cautious for a moment, especially when it started running but those instincts kicked in and she ran it down. If you can get quail, get them. If not chukars aren't that big a deal for a young draht going on 15, 16 weeks. The exposure is needed so use what you can, except pheasants.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby ryanr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:06 pm

GONEHUNTIN' wrote:Wonder how they'll determine a dog is cold.


They'll have some Do Gooder talk to the dog and ask it. :lol:
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby iapheasant » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:07 am

Yep. I have had hunting dogs in ND and Minnesota. Never ever even crossed my mind to put a coat on my dog to pee. My neighbors have GSPs and never wear a coat. And FYI it can get to -40 here during hunting season.
"The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live" George Carlin
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby ejm4 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:02 pm

Stopped by Bass Pro yesterday and bought a pheasant decoy and the pheasant odor on a stick.

We visited the game lands this afternoon, applied the odor to the decoy, dragged it thru the field... turned her loose and she didn’t want anything to do with it. Did her own thing (the entire time. We left the decoy and just walked and followed her. She did find a dead pheasant another hunter left behind.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:22 am

This may help you some. My daughter just brought a new pup home to her kids and this is a basic guide for training I did for them.
It applies to all dog's in all situations.

1) NEVER GIVE A COMMAND YOU CAN’T ENFORCE.
For instance, if you can’t catch the dog, don’t say HERE. If you command and don’t enforce, the dog learns it only has to obey when IT wants.

2) USE A RELEASE FOR EVERY COMMAND.
For instance, when you say SIT, don’t just walk away, leave the dog sitting, then let her get up and leave on her own. A dog never does anything without a command. If you tell her to sit, she should sit until commanded to do something else or released with the command OK.

3) ONE WORD COMMANDS ONLY!
Don’t have a conversation with the dog. If she’s in the garbage, don’t say “hey you, get out of there. NO! One word NO. Want her to sit? One word SIT!. Not, “hey you, get over here and sit”. Dog’s understand single word’s, not phrases.

4) BASIC COMMANDS EVERY DOG SHOULD KNOW:
HERE. SIT. DOWN. HEEL. NO. KENNEL.
Those are the only six commands you need for any well trained pet.

5) YOU CATCH MORE FLIES WITH HONEY THAN VINEGAR.
A young dog trains faster with positive reinforcement, that is treats and praise. They need SOME negative (slap on butt) to know they HAVE to obey, treats or not.

6) NO BITING!
There are NO exceptions to this! Even in play a pup is NEVER ALLOWED TO BITE! A playful nip now may result in stitches to the face later. THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE! To stop biting, slap the pup’s nose and say NO! or pinch the gums against the upper teeth and say NO! or, bite him back. That’s what the mother would do.

7) IF YOU CAN’T WATCH THE DOG, KENNEL IT.
Never leave the dog roaming unattended.

8) TWO SHORT 10 MINUTE SESSION A DAY GET’S FASTER RESULTS THAN ONE 20 MINUTE.
Try to never bore the pup. Keep it short and interesting.

9) BE CONSISTENT!
Use the same commands each time. Command the dog ONCE then correct if the command isn’t followed. Don’t tell the dog to “sit”, if it doesn’t, slap it’s butt and yell “sit!”, then let it walk away the next time.

10) PATIENCE!
Teach, teach, teach. When the dog doesn’t follow a command it is probably a lack of education on your part, not defiance on the dog’s.

11) NEVER YELL AT A DOG.
Command the dog in an even voice or you will panic and confuse the dog.

12) NEVER STRIKE A DOG IN ANGER.
You can undo a month of training in a fit of anger. All corrections should be thought out, precise and measured.



That’s it. Very easy but very hard to do. Consistency results in great dog’s.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby AverageGuy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am

Excellent list GH. Needs to be posted prominently somewhere on this site so it can be used as reference material over and over as new folks acquire new puppies.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby orhunter » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:51 am

Great list GH. Nothing I can add, you covered everything and very well.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:17 pm

not on your list but "leave it" seems to be pretty big around here
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby orhunter » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:48 pm

Bruce: That’s two words. Rule 3. What ever happened to, NO!!!!? The lost command.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:34 pm

OK... sorry.

So... around here we see this a lot: I want the dog in the house but I don't want the bone he's chewing to come in with him. I normally say "come ... leave it" (or vice versa) and dog heads for the house and drops the bone en route. I guess I could say "come...no" or "no... come"?
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby ANick » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 pm

Someone made a case on the use of, "No.", that made me think. I just wish I could remember where the heck I heard it or read it.

The jist of the argument he presented was that, "No", is not a command.

You want to teach a pup to sit, you tease, tickle or bribe the pup to assume that position while you say, "Sit." Lather, rinse, repeat a few times or a thousand, the pup knows when he hears the sound, "Sit", pup's butt is to be on the deck.

"Off", "Down", "Kennel", "Fetch", "Out", these are all sounds that the pup has learned an action to perform when that sound is heard. Legitimately, we call them commands. If you will, "I command you to Sit!", does the same thing for ... okay, used to do the same thing for some kids. For giggles, you could try that one with your spouse. Maybe wait till summer though.

What happens when you tell the spouse, "I command you to NO!"?? The look on the face should tell you something.

So, what action... and we have been teaching the pup to DO something when they hear a sound from us... goes with that sound, In All Cases????

Consistency.

Example. Door swings open, pup makes a run for it. You shout, "No!" <Decision, did the pup 'no' or disobey?
Door swings open, pup makes a run for it. You shout, "Door!" <Decision, did the pup sit at the door or disobey? Address as needed. Presumably you had trained Door, or Halt, etc..>
Dog makes a pass along the kitchen counter, nose starts to rise up to get a whiff of something that smells good! Front feet start to levitate.
You shout, "No!" <Decision, did the pup 'no' or disobey? Didn't go through the door!!
Pup finds your stinky flip-flop feels good on the gums. You shout, "No!" <Decision, did the pup 'no' or disobey? Didn't go through the door, didn't get on the counter..

Dogs hear sounds and build a vocabulary of sounds and related actions. They do fine with unique sounds. Some are different but have common parts.

Example: Retriever guys, cover your eyes for a moment. The command is 'Place', the setting is in the kitchen, time to feed the pup. Pup lays down on a mat, waits there while I get the dish, load the ration and put it back in place and possibly refresh the water bowl. The pup waits for the double tap on the shoulder and the verbal, "Go on".. and then goes over to inhale din din. (The first version was without the mat but I added that shortly thereafter. First successfully done, March 6, 2016 about 10 weeks old, 4th feeding was the first without a reset required.)
Months and months later, that's the same drill, but I'd changed out the original rag rug mat for a car floor mat. I added 'Place mat", which is more a game than a command. I give her 'Place', she does her thing to wait for food. While she waits, I go get the old rug out and stash is someplace 'not in the kitchen'. 'Place mat', launches a blind search. She'll come back to the kitchen where I'm waiting by her mat, sit to deliver, release on 'Out' and then back up a few steps. I lay out the 'Place mat' on her mat, and she resumes 'Place'. Double tap, 'Go on'... and food is achieved.

There are a lot of 'two words' but unique sounds that many or most dogs will hear. A case can be made for using the pup's name with the command, especially if you hunt with multiple dogs. Case in point, a group hunt we'd paused a moment to reset... his two had moved out ahead a little further than he liked while we were spreading out on a redeploy. In a pretty good carrying tone, he called out, "Here!". His two and about 7 others dashed over to sit in front of his somewhat blushing face. We just traded looks and then laughed our ashcans off. :)
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:06 pm

In the example you quote about the door, the correct command to the dog would be HERE!, not NO!.

No is most definitely a command and probably the most powerful and important command the dog will ever learn. NO! will many times precede a corrective command. NO! (stop what you're doing), HERE! the corrective command. NO! tells a dog to cease and desist from whatever they are doing and prepare to perform a command. You would rarely ever issue the command NO! without another command following it. NO! means stop, so the dog then needs a way out of his predicament. The corrective command provides that.

There are some exceptions to that, but very few. A dog could be chewing a slipper and you might take the slipper commanding NO! and replace that with a toy. Or nothing. But in general, NO! should always be followed with a corrective command. A dog always needs a way out from a correction.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: DD puppy come home next week - help / tips needed.

Postby orhunter » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:55 am

Bruce.... Try, give, like its a release command for fetch. Or drop or just leave. The word it, is where the problem is. Most the people I see who use “leave it” do so when the dog wants to pick something up, like that stinky dead thing. Not something they already have in their mouth.

For the door thing, whoa/wupp might be okay. A dog in motion needs to stop. Has little to do with the door.
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