Pointing Question

Pointing, retrieving, flushing, tracking, behavioral issues, puppy training, etc.

Moderator: Moderator Pack

Pointing Question

Postby swampcollie » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:28 pm

I am currently training my first versatile (drahthaar) and had something occur this morning with birds that I am not sure about. I was working the dog on pen raised planted bobwhite quail. The wind was blowing about 12 mph and current conditions are very very dry and no dew at all this morning. Anyway, I worked her from well down wind on a check cord and even as close as 3 feet and she never acknowledged scenting the birds whatsoever. She has pointed well on both wild and other planted birds and is bird crazy so it just has me puzzled as a new trainer what went wrong. As mentioned above the conditions are extremely dry. Is it pen raised birds, dry conditions, etc..? As a new trainer I just don't want to do something wrong.
swampcollie
Pup
Pup
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby jlw034 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:39 pm

Was the bird placed in a low spot?
User avatar
jlw034
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:54 am
Location: Moneysota

Re: Pointing Question

Postby swampcollie » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:11 pm

Birds were placed in a relatively open field in standing vegetation about 10"-12" high. I did scoop out a pocket within the grass and lightly bend some of the grass over the birds once placed. I have used the same technique on other training days and it worked fine with no problems with her pointing them. For some reason she just acted as if there was no scent at all.
swampcollie
Pup
Pup
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby 3drahthaars » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:57 pm

If she's done well before...

why the planting and check cord?

Get good flying birds, ditch the check cord, let the birds teach her not to get too close.

Otherwise, get a release launcher or only work wild birds.

FYI, if you have a decent tracking dog which a DD should be, planting birds only teaches an intelligent DD to track to the bird and flush.

3ds
User avatar
3drahthaars
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby orhunter » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:44 pm

It's the time of year to be hunting, not training.

What 3D's said, ditch the check cord.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7289
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: Pointing Question

Postby ForestDump » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:15 pm

Did you take the dog into the scent cross wind or down wind? How old is the dog?

I don’t agree with ditching the check cord if your dog is not ready. Hunting is fun but most people don’t have hundreds of bird contacts. It doesn’t teach a dog anything to run through a field for 3 hours and see two birds. Get your yard work solid and keep training.
User avatar
ForestDump
Seasoned
Seasoned
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:42 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Pointing Question

Postby swampcollie » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:26 pm

I worked her from downwind and she is 6 months old. I don't have many opportunity in my area to put her on wild birds so that is why I was using planted birds. Our bird season does not open until November so just trying to get a young dog some bird contacts. This is my first pointing dog so I have been trying my best to follow the "Perfect Start" training dvd with her and not let her catch any birds so that is why I still have her on the check cord with planted birds. The birds are good flyers but I just don't want to take the chance of her catching one right now. She will get plenty of hunting from November to January but I am just trying to get her out and ready for the season. We are both learning and having fun.
swampcollie
Pup
Pup
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:02 pm

Work her in cross wind, not down wind so the scent slaps her suddenly in the nose. When you work her down wind she can smell them forever and it promotes creeping.

Might have been one of those days when they just can't scent the birds; I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
User avatar
GONEHUNTIN'
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:39 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby 3drahthaars » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:17 pm

If you don't believe some of us about the check cord... get the Altmoor Drahthaar Puppy Manual.

Your pup should be around 7 months of age now and old enough to hunt.

Ditch the checkcord, get the pup in the field, let her learn from wild birds, and only shoot the ones she handles correctly.

It seems that everything on the web pushes training, training, training until dogs have been trained to perfection and hunted very little.

Too many people spend too much time training hunting dogs... it takes wild birds to train a bird dog!

One good hunting season, a little OB, and you're there.

Keep messing with planted birds and the check cord and you'll teach bad habits and screw up your pup's search.


Good luck,


3ds
User avatar
3drahthaars
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby ryanr » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:44 am

Crosswind brother, crosswind. Has she been worked specifically on quail before? I ask because when my own Drahthaar was young he readily pointed every bird he'd been worked on, intensely too including pheasant, pigeons, chukar and wild grouse & woodcock too. Yet the first few times he encountered liberated quail he pretty much ran right over them. At any rate, if he's pointed plenty of other birds, even quail, I wouldn't worry about an off day or two. And like others, I'm not a work a dog into birds on a check cord fan either. On very few occassions I've let them drag one freely before but that's it and I look to ditch it pretty quick.

And for the "it's time for hunting and not training" crowd, I have no idea where the OP is located but man, here in PA we're still 2 weeks away from the start of grouse & woodcock and pheasant season is 3 weeks away so...
ryanr
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 2099
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:54 pm
Location: Lehighton, PA

Re: Pointing Question

Postby centershots » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:06 pm

One Bobwhite does not give off a huge amount of scent (especially in dry conditions) so if you placed it down and then brought the pup right to it down wind the scent may have not been very strong for a pup on it's first time on that type of bird. (If it was it's first time on Bobwhite.) Try planting the bird and waiting a bit for the scent cone to develop then take the pup cross wind to it, bet it nails it then. :-) Sounds like you're doing fine, I sure wouldn't sweat it, one time really could have been a number of things. Give it another go...
George DeCosta, Jr.
www.huntinggriff.com
User avatar
centershots
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:46 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby 3drahthaars » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:40 am

Yes, a bob doesnt give off much scent.

But every foot print to and from the planted bird does.

Go hunting!
User avatar
3drahthaars
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby ForestDump » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
ForestDump
Seasoned
Seasoned
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:42 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Pointing Question

Postby centershots » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:41 pm

Most dogs/pups don't point foot prints... at least not the ones that I've worked with. They might track them, but not point them. Need some bird scent for the point, IMO... just a suggestion.
George DeCosta, Jr.
www.huntinggriff.com
User avatar
centershots
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:46 pm

Re: Pointing Question

Postby 3drahthaars » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:37 pm

centershots wrote:Most dogs/pups don't point foot prints... at least not the ones that I've worked with. They might track them, but not point them. Need some bird scent for the point, IMO... just a suggestion.


Its the point that they track vs search, usually build up steam on the track, and croud or roll through the planted bird.

I don't plant birds for a young dog...
User avatar
3drahthaars
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:08 pm


Return to Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests