Versatile dog puppy training.

Pointing, retrieving, flushing, tracking, behavioral issues, puppy training, etc.

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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby TSAMP » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:08 pm

Yeah shots up to date at 16 weeks. so no concerns from vet anymore. Original post referenced prior to 12 weeks so i was referring to what i did in that timeframe. Which was run the dog that did not have all its shots in the field.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby Densa44 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:47 am

Try to get the pup more exercise, lots more exercise. I have mine retrieve, plus sight blinds, that way I can get the dummy out farther than I can throw it. Swimming will help a lot too.

Try to work on good ground so the dog doesn't get injured.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby Boxertwin » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:34 pm

The dog is now 4 weeks older. Still can be a handful.
Our vert was really against us taking the dog to dog park or places where there were other unknown dogs until after the rabies shot. She has all the others now, gets the rabies on Monday.

I have seeded my small back yard and counted 17 doves in the yard....the dog could care less. She was more interested in a bee.
I took her to a perfect vantage point, she watched for a bit and then turned away.....but then she did a perfect point on a blue jay on the fence in the afternoon.
I saved some dove wings from opener does anyone recommend anything to do with them and the pup? I have heard mixed opinions on the wing on a string thing.



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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:29 am

Wing on a string is to get pictures. It has no value in training for hunting.

Keep getting your pup outside. If it helps, I'm a vet and my puppies start doing timber walks at 5 weeks of age. Theres no way to avoid all risk, but your pup is as protected as possible now. Real life experiences are what he needs.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby Boxertwin » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:57 pm

so wing on a string is not good but is there any other training exercises for a pup you can do with them?
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby 3drahthaars » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:22 pm

Wing on a string encourages sight pointing, further on the pup will crowd birds to see them before pointing... causes problems.

Planting birds is OK, but again a decent tracker with some intelligence learns he doesn't have to search. He just finds your foot scent to the planted bird and steamrolls into it.

You can see where I'm going with this, eh?


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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby orhunter » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:35 pm

I planted wings when last pup was a toddler. She learned they were good to chew on. Not much else. Bad move. Real birds or nothing at all.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby ryanr » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:30 pm

Boxertwin wrote:so wing on a string is not good but is there any other training exercises for a pup you can do with them?


Exposure. You and the pup just get out and explore. Don't worry so much about getting the pup on birds and "training exercises" but take advantage of any birds, particularly wild birds you come across and just observe pup's reactions quietly. Don't worry whether or not it's pointing at this age Just get outside and let pup learn to use all it's senses.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:24 am

ryanr wrote:
TSAMP wrote:Parvo yes. Lepto and lyme. List probably continues. I am pretty new to it all. My first dog was a lab who never met a vet. I looked at it this way. The odds of crossing paths with that stuff were far less likely than the benefits my dog would get from the early exposure, not to mention the excercise.


I was assuming we were talking about a pup that already had its shots. I mean the pup is already at least 16weeks old. Find a vet that knows a darn thing or two about hunting/working dogs. Sounds like your current vet's expertise is in lap dogs.


Agreed, and unfortunately behind the times in general. The American College of Veterinary Behaviorists supports early socialization for all dogs.

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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby JONOV » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:33 pm

Boxertwin wrote:The dog is now 4 weeks older. Still can be a handful.
Our vert was really against us taking the dog to dog park or places where there were other unknown dogs until after the rabies shot. She has all the others now, gets the rabies on Monday.

I have seeded my small back yard and counted 17 doves in the yard....the dog could care less. She was more interested in a bee.
I took her to a perfect vantage point, she watched for a bit and then turned away.....but then she did a perfect point on a blue jay on the fence in the afternoon.


If you went to a T-Ball game, you would have trouble picking the ones that would make the Varsity Baseball team in high school. Best case scenario you would pick the kids born in September as opposed to April (assuming they go by grade level.) Now, if you knew that so-and-so's dad played in the minors, you might have a better idea. What you did buying a Pudelpointer is the closest thing to finding a kid with the parentage to play at that high level. But at that age, he's as likely to make a great catch as he is to be playing with the antpile in right field. It isn't a problem, just where he is right now.

I got really nervous watching where other dogs were as I trained for the NA test. You take it personally, but you also second guess yourself and what you've done in bringing the dog up, in the breeder you picked, in the pup you have vs another one, etc...DON'T be so worried. I was and it bothered me endlessly and I shouldn't have been bothered. I felt especially dumb when I found out, on test day, that some of the dogs were 15+ months old compared to my 8 month old dog.

Take him out in the world on as many nature walks as you can. Let him explore the world and learn its a big amazing place. The instincts will kick in.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:01 pm

Boxertwin wrote:so wing on a string is not good but is there any other training exercises for a pup you can do with them?


As others have said, at four months of age mostly the dog needs lots of running and exploring -off leash. Go several times a week where you can get it in. And the dog needs socialization wth other dogs so it learns how to get along. Turn the dog over on your lap often and explore its teeth, feet, etc. so it learns to be subdued for removing porcupine quills, etc.

Read all the books you can. They all contradict each other so you need to sort out what works best for you. My favorite is Point, Training the All Season's Bird Dog by James Spencer. He gives you alternatives for everything, but is clear on what needs to get done. Bailey's is not much on training but if you don't really think your dog needs much training then it's OK.

I would read up on how to train with positive reinforcement. This will increase your enjoyment, develop a teaching relationship with the dog, and the dog will learn obedience - sit, stay, come, fetch, heel, etc. - all in short order. Not saying there isn't room for strictness (and you'll eventually need the ecollar to proof all you've taught) but the dog first needs to know all commands first before you can correct for infractions.

As far as other training exercises go, throwing dummies is great - but if you're going to do it more than occasionally I believe it should be, as Orhunter says, in a blind ended hallway and the exercise should be headed for the "trained retrieve". Once good at the "trained retrieve" you can throw dummies all day as your dog will retrieve, sit at your side (if you wish) , and deliver to hand. And you won't need to go through FF.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:24 am

Not everything about "wing on a string" is bad. It depends on how it's used. With a pup, it does get them sight pointing but also can teach them that creeping results in a busted bird, a busted bird can't be caught, and to stay steady for flush.

Once they are slightly older, put the wing in 6" of cover so it can't be seen. Then they have to use their nose.

When they have that use a pigeon on a fishing rod. Same deal. You can start them in the yard, then move to cover. When you flush the pigeon, free spool the reel and let him go 50 yards or keep the line short and let him fly around pup's head. I call it "Fishing For a Pup". They love it, eagerly look forward to it, and learn a ton from It.

If you don't live where you have access to birds and cover, doing SOMETHING is better than doing NOTHING. Innovate.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby JONOV » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:26 pm

GONEHUNTIN' wrote:Not everything about "wing on a string" is bad. It depends on how it's used. With a pup, it does get them sight pointing but also can teach them that creeping results in a busted bird, a busted bird can't be caught, and to stay steady for flush.

Once they are slightly older, put the wing in 6" of cover so it can't be seen. Then they have to use their nose.

When they have that use a pigeon on a fishing rod. Same deal. You can start them in the yard, then move to cover. When you flush the pigeon, free spool the reel and let him go 50 yards or keep the line short and let him fly around pup's head. I call it "Fishing For a Pup". They love it, eagerly look forward to it, and learn a ton from It.

If you don't live where you have access to birds and cover, doing SOMETHING is better than doing NOTHING. Innovate.

I think the problem with wing-on-a-string came about with facebook. Breeders use it to sell pups and new puppy owners use it for photo-ops. They aren't doing any of it for any good reason. And, it becomes a fun game, again not used for any training purposes. Like most things, we create our own problems not realizing that the dogs are training us or learning from us whether we do it on purpose or not, and whether they understand our purpose or not.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:47 pm

Richard Walters promoted it in the 60's or 70's in his book Gun Dog. That was the first time I had heard of it. Now, everyone has a blind hatred of it because it's politically correct to do so. It does or can have value though when used correctly and sparingly. I still use it and the tethered pigeon on a rod to work pups.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Versatile dog puppy training.

Postby 3drahthaars » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:45 pm

I believe Wolters used it to the extreme.

I use it to pick a pup, am extra amped when one quickly uses its nose after a couple reps... then, it gets tossed in the can...
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