obedience off leash

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obedience off leash

Postby apphunter » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:41 am

I have DD puppy that is about 22 weeks old. I have been working with him on here, heel, sit, stay, and whoa. He does really well when the check cord is on but without the check cord he is a lot less likely to respond.

This is my second dog and my first was a lab who is very biddable. I knew going into a DD that he probably wouldn't be as biddable but I think he should be able to obey better than he is.

Any suggestions?

JD
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby ryanr » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:20 am

Yes, more training reps particularly on Here and Whoa. If the dog isn't 99% on the check cord, it isn't there yet. If he is, then begin overlaying with the e-collar.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby booger » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:49 am

I got my DD at 3 years old and she was somewhat trained. She would heel ok at a walk, but wouldn't get into position from sit (or anywhere). I worked with a check cord and she was getting pretty good. I'd drop the check cord, and she was iffy. I didn't do the deal where you have her follow a treat to position, that might've been better. But I literally would have her sitting in front of me with a check cord and she'd do it perfectly. I'd drop or take off the check cord and she'd come to sit in front to the side right after doing it perfectly.

I ended up putting the pinch collar on her and yanking her over to position. Which she did well. The pinch collar added some urgency to avoid a correction. But the same thing happened, she'd come to sit in front without the check cord. I figured out that my dog does 5x better on physical (not verbal) cues. So I started acting like I was going to yank her into position and she'd do it great again. I was able to take off the check cord and make the yanking motion and she was getting into position very well. I'll add I was using treats and clicks quite a bit and she's a food driven dog.

My takeaway - if you can use physical cues like hand signals, it can be very helpful. It is crazy how bad some dogs are at generalizing, taking off the check cord was apparently a different world to my dog.

Like was mentioned, an e-collar and overlaying with the check cord should help also.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby Willie T » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:42 am

At a little over 5 months, I do not screw things down. If you are giving commands that you can not ensure compliance first time every time you are teaching that your commands are optional. Anticipate non compliance and prepare for it. If you are not in position to ensure 100% compliance don't give the command. A conditioned response will develop if you are consistent. Some time after 6 months I will transition to a pinch collar. After things are in order, I will introduce distractions. After distractions of various levels have been worked through, I will slowly introduce the e-collar. It is a process with no given timeline. Read your dog and be patient. Don't advance till he is ready. Some will be precocious and pick up on things quickly. Some will be slow to mature and require more time.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby Chadwick » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:22 am

Willie T wrote:A conditioned response will develop if you are consistent.


X2!
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby 3drahthaars » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:06 pm

You said it... "check cord".

How quickly they figure it out.

I've never used one, because I think they can cause more problems than good for the type of dog I like... I.e. intelligent.

And, not being "biddable" isn't necessarily a DD trait... If you believe so, you've been misinformed. It's the absence of a trait that should be bred into any good hunting dog.

My DD is very biddable... and, she's out of a German import and one of the nicest studs that I ever saw/judged.

What's your dog's breeder have to say?


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Re: obedience off leash

Postby Doc E » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:13 pm

The big three in teaching a dog anything :
1. Teach
2. Enforce (check cord)
3. Reinforce (ecollar).
.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby apphunter » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:11 am

3drahthaars wrote:You said it... "check cord".

How quickly they figure it out.

I've never used one, because I think they can cause more problems than good for the type of dog I like... I.e. intelligent.

And, not being "biddable" isn't necessarily a DD trait... If you believe so, you've been misinformed. It's the absence of a trait that should be bred into any good hunting dog.

My DD is very biddable... and, she's out of a German import and one of the nicest studs that I ever saw/judged.

What's your dog's breeder have to say?


3ds


Maybe I phrased it wrong. I just got lucky my previous lab and she lived to please me. She would rather obey than retrieve and I was spoiled. Thus training her on obedience was exceptionally easy. Boone is not as apt to obey which I understand but he is also more intelligent and bolder than she is. I knew I wanted those traits when I selected him I just have to put in the reps.

He does find when we are doing are little training sessions and I see improvement every session. Most of the time he doesn't listen is when we are not training and I just need him to mind while doing things around the house.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby apphunter » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:11 am

3drahthaars wrote:You said it... "check cord".

How quickly they figure it out.

I've never used one, because I think they can cause more problems than good for the type of dog I like... I.e. intelligent.

And, not being "biddable" isn't necessarily a DD trait... If you believe so, you've been misinformed. It's the absence of a trait that should be bred into any good hunting dog.

My DD is very biddable... and, she's out of a German import and one of the nicest studs that I ever saw/judged.

What's your dog's breeder have to say?


3ds


Maybe I phrased it wrong. I just got lucky my previous lab and she lived to please me. She would rather obey than retrieve and I was spoiled. Thus training her on obedience was exceptionally easy. Boone is not as apt to obey which I understand but he is also more intelligent and bolder than she is. I knew I wanted those traits when I selected him I just have to put in the reps.

He does find when we are doing are little training sessions and I see improvement every session. Most of the time he doesn't listen is when we are not training and I just need him to mind while doing things around the house.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby Willie T » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:42 pm

App, if you are not in position to ensure compliance first time every time do not give the command. To quote a phrase by Duckdon "you own what you condome.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby Expert » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:18 pm

Willie T wrote:At a little over 5 months, I do not screw things down. If you are giving commands that you can not ensure compliance first time every time you are teaching that your commands are optional. Anticipate non compliance and prepare for it. If you are not in position to ensure 100% compliance don't give the command. A conditioned response will develop if you are consistent. Some time after 6 months I will transition to a pinch collar. After things are in order, I will introduce distractions. After distractions of various levels have been worked through, I will slowly introduce the e-collar. It is a process with no given timeline. Read your dog and be patient. Don't advance till he is ready. Some will be precocious and pick up on things quickly. Some will be slow to mature and require more time.


Great advice for all training. "If you are not in position to ensure 100% compliance don't give the command."

So many dog owners put the dog in a position where it can disobey commands and get away with it. Fetch means fetch, sit means sit, heal means heal... These are smart dogs, once they learn there is an option not to listen you are in for trouble. Of course, don't expect your dog to comply with a command unless they know exactly what you want. Depending on the dog, first 8 to 12 months should be fun learning. Once they understand, then you can enforce that learning. PM me if you have questions.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby Hunters Edge » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:46 am

Expert wrote:
Willie T wrote:At a little over 5 months, I do not screw things down. If you are giving commands that you can not ensure compliance first time every time you are teaching that your commands are optional. Anticipate non compliance and prepare for it. If you are not in position to ensure 100% compliance don't give the command. A conditioned response will develop if you are consistent. Some time after 6 months I will transition to a pinch collar. After things are in order, I will introduce distractions. After distractions of various levels have been worked through, I will slowly introduce the e-collar. It is a process with no given timeline. Read your dog and be patient. Don't advance till he is ready. Some will be precocious and pick up on things quickly. Some will be slow to mature and require more time.


Great advice for all training. "If you are not in position to ensure 100% compliance don't give the command."

So many dog owners put the dog in a position where it can disobey commands and get away with it. Fetch means fetch, sit means sit, heal means heal... These are smart dogs, once they learn there is an option not to listen you are in for trouble. Of course, don't expect your dog to comply with a command unless they know exactly what you want. Depending on the dog, first 8 to 12 months should be fun learning. Once they understand, then you can enforce that learning. PM me if you have questions.


Bumped

Your dealing with a male versus female, also every dog/pup from the same litter have different temperaments, learning curves etc., I would not say a German breed is not biddable.

What have been said/written is good advice. Let me be more blunt, you are confusing your dog every time he is allowed to break/disobey you or other family members commands. You are educating him/her that they can do what they want.

Now I think a great and simple training advise is what has already been given, every command needs to be reinforced.

A greater more expedient way to train is make it that the dog wants to do what command is given. This majority of times is confused by saying biddable. What all should realize if trained correctly the dog will always want to please. What second thing most handlers ignore, besides reinforce a command, not force a command, but praise. When that dog does what you want it should show happiness and on the edge waiting for another command, not breaking a command.

I hope you change your idea of training for if you do the same as you have been doing, chances are you will have the same results. Keep this in mind when you look at what you want to end up with, and how you are going to get their, then implement you new training methods.

What was said about a smart dog is true. They learn the good as well as the bad. By you not training in a way that all not some but all 100 percent of commands can and will be reinforced, no exception. This has caused a bad behavior that will take a little time to correct, for the last 16 weeks he was given card Blanc to ignore your commands. If you can not reinforce a command, DO NOT GIVE A COMMAND. Also the reinforcement has to be if they break/ignore command, but can not emphasize this enough PRAISE, DO NOT FORGET TO PRAISE.

Best of luck, if done correctly your pup will be very obedient.
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Re: obedience off leash

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:39 am

If you ever let him run without a cc, you'll never have a problem with recall. I ev en have mine drag an 1/8" 6' one in the house. Makes house breaking and corrections fast and easy. Lots of treats, few corrections.
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