Stubborn DK

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Stubborn DK

Postby rocco376 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:37 pm

We got ourselves a gorgeous solid liver female DK. The dog has tremendous drive, and is an even larger pain in the ass. She is a whiner when things are not going her way (not chasing and decapitating birds), heels when she feels like it, and pretty much acts like a spoiled brat. She is 16 months old now, and has gone through various levels of obedience and hunting training as a pup. We didn't even own a shock collar for our previous dog, this one doesn't do anything we ask of her unless we shock the crap out of her. Even professional trainers told us she is stubborn, and to shock her.
Last edited by rocco376 on Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Stubborn DK

Postby orhunter » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:50 pm

What are you doing to correct the behavior you don't like besides shocking her? You gotta do more than a passive, "no."
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Re: Stubborn DK

Postby Constructeur » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:23 pm

rocco376 wrote: ...and is an even larger pain in the ass.

You have to understand that the old mellow dog is gone, and that you have a firecracker now. The sooner you acknowledge that, and train consistently for it the better off you'll be.If not you'll have a dog that will only listen when she feels like it.
rocco376 wrote: She is a whiner when things are not going her way

That's the breeding and IMO it won't change much as she ages (I have a GSP that is the same way)
rocco376 wrote: heels when she feels like it,

Thanks for the honesty. That issue is you guys, she only get's away with what you let her get away with.
rocco376 wrote: Even professional trainers told us she is stubborn, and to shock her.

Why do you think a group of amateurs that are online will solve the issue better than pro trainers that have had a hands on with the dog? You need to follow through with what they have instructed you to do, and be consistent...which means you having to put in more hard work, to be more hands on, and to be more frustrated, than you were with your last dog.
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Re: Stubborn DK

Postby Chadwick » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:50 am

rocco376 wrote:So, after we lost our GSP to cancer in 2015, we waited a year, and got ourselves a gorgeous solid liver female DK. The dog has tremendous drive, and is an even larger pain in the ass. She is a whiner when things are not going her way (not chasing and decapitating birds), heels when she feels like it, and pretty much acts like a spoiled brat. She is 16 months old now, has been to a 6 week gun dog class at a respected training facility, also went through various levels of obedience training as a pup. We didn't even own a shock collar for our previous dog, this one doesn't do anything we ask of her unless we shock the crap out of her. Even professional trainers told us she is stubborn, and to shock her. I'm at my wits end with this dog. What the hell are we doing wrong?


If you have not tried clicker training, try it. There is no downside to trying.

I had a DK very similar to what you are describing. I fought against that dog for a long time (6 years), until I used positive reinforcement. I never figured such a difficult dog would respond so well to a treat.

If it works for your dog, it will be better for both of you. Your frustration with the dog will be greatly reduced and it should show your dog that working with you is the way to go.
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Re: Stubborn DK

Postby ForestDump » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:27 am

Only thing I can think of is you are lacking consistency. I would work 1 on 1 with a pro these sessions are more about teaching you what you're doing wrong and to help you work with the dog. Work with the pro on figuring out a regimen for this dog to get her where you want her.

She might also just be too much dog for you which is fine, it happens. Some people get a dog that they're happy with and think well if this dog was good I should get a high strung/high powered version of that dog. Even if they really don't need it. In the case that the dog is just beyond your current needs and abilities I would recommend finding the dog a suitable home and finding a more biddable/calmer breeding.
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Re: Stubborn DK

Postby hicntry » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:56 am

"
She might also just be too much dog for you which is fine, it happens."

+! and I don't think it is "might" it "is" too much or the dog wouldn't be posing the problems it is. Don't know what you have subjected the dog to thus far, but, it sounds like it has the makings of a really good dog in the field.I love a challenging dog and one that challenges me. Don't try to get the dog to be perfect. Meet it half way or you will have to actually break the dog....which is a mistake. I have one similar right now. Dog has been a challenge since day one. Example: I tell the dog to get on his bed and lay down. Dog looks me in the eye and lays down 5' from the bed. That is a win for me because he laid down. I don't praise him for laying down. I just ignore him. Don't expect absolute perfection but rather treat the dog as a person that you would never expect to be as perfect as most dog owners think their dogs should be. One thing to remember is that just about anyone can train an easy dog. You have a dog that will teach you something about training. Not everyone is that lucky.
Last edited by hicntry on Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stubborn DK

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:27 pm

OK.. I'll wade in... and be blunt.

Seems like you're not used to training much. You say, "she's gone through various levels of obedience and hunting training as a pup". You've sought the advice of professional trainers. You're planning a six week gun dog class. Frankly, you're dealing with a racehorse and you just can't take one to someone else to tune them up every now and then. It's a 24/7 proposition.

A sixteen month old DK is pretty much still a pup (if DK's are much like DD's, PP's, etc.) and their drive will nearly always supersede whatever measures you use to try to control them. IMO "shocking" (as you describe it) may only elevate her level of confusion and screw her up more. The ecollar will be useful in the future but not now. I'm with Chadwick - learn some clicker or PR training techniques and put the ecollar away for awhile. Maybe enroll the dog in a clicker training class for unruly dogs (where you do all the work).

Once you start understanding your dog, and once you learn to train her on your own, you'll then be ready for gun dog training, etc. Good luck!
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Re: Stubborn DK

Postby Smilin Jack » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:49 pm

X2
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