Avoidance Training Clinics?

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Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby AverageGuy » Tue May 23, 2017 2:25 pm

Has anyone ever heard if Porcupine Avoidance training clinics being offered somewhere? Not sure they exist, just expect my Pup will get a bad dose if and when he runs into one without it.

Second Question. Would it be feasible to accomplish snake avoidance training using a nonvenomous species of snake readily available in my area e.g. a Black Snake, or does the training have to be done with a Rattlesnake to accomplish the needed result? Obviously the Rattlesnake is the best option if you have access to one, but I wondered whether a generic distrust and avoidance of snakes could be accomplished using a different species more easily obtained and safer to work with.
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby ryanr » Tue May 23, 2017 10:58 pm

AverageGuy wrote:Has anyone ever heard if Porcupine Avoidance training clinics being offered somewhere? Not sure they exist, just expect my Pup will get a bad dose if and when he runs into one without it.

Second Question. Would it be feasible to accomplish snake avoidance training using a nonvenomous species of snake readily available in my area e.g. a Black Snake, or does the training have to be done with a Rattlesnake to accomplish the needed result? Obviously the Rattlesnake is the best option if you have access to one, but I wondered whether a generic distrust and avoidance of snakes could be accomplished using a different species more easily obtained and safer to work with.


A chapter here in the East is supposed to be hosting a porcupine avoidance clinic this year in late summer. I'm signing up for it. I've also done it myself in my dog's first year using a freshly killed, unmangled porcupine that we had the good fortune to come across. I think it worked but I just needed to reinforce the following year and never came across a fresh dead porcupine that was in decent shape to use.

I think at a number of snake avoidance clinics they don't actually use a rattlesnake. I know the other year I read about a clinic out West that mostly used bull snakes. So I think it can be done. I used the garter snakes in my yard to do a little myself when my dog was a pup and was way too cavalier with snakes for my liking.
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby Willie T » Wed May 24, 2017 9:44 am

AG, this is an opinion only comment about de-snaking on my part so take it as such. There is a lot at stake for it not to accomplish what you want. Because of the the risk to your dog that is at stake, I would not take the chance. If I was going to de-snake my dog, I would drive somewhere to a de-snaking that the real thing is used.
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby 3drahthaars » Wed May 24, 2017 8:19 pm

Oh, come on...

... you are trying to discourage your V'dog from aggression on fur...

You'll never get one of those quill filled photos to prove how "tough" your dog is. :wink:

But, seriously I've never heard of one, but the porcupine clinic makes sense.

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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby AverageGuy » Thu May 25, 2017 7:50 am

So Google has actually shown me some Porkie and Rattlesnake Avoidance Clinics from the recent past - far far away in the NE. I am sure I can find a rattlesnake avoidance clinic or private trainer in TX, but am hoping for the holy grail of getting some porkie training on the trip as well. My challenge is I travel and hunt where the Rattlers and Porkies roam but have zero Porkies and very few Rattlers where I live. I thought perhaps some out west NAVHDA chapters might conduct them. Will appreciate hearing of it, if anyone on this board hears about one.

3ds,

I started hunting fur with an Airedale at 10 years of age. Our parents allowed us to use our Sheridan Blue Streak Pellet guns to hunt squirrels in the daytime but we were not allowed to carry a gun to the woods at night when we went coon hunting. So we climbed the trees and shook the coon out to the dog. (which was far more dangerous of course ...). In my teens to early 30s I had fur dogs/Hounds. Moved to Vdogs for the past 30 years. Over time I evolved to where it was the tracking, treeing and baying skills vs the fighting and killing parts of fur hunting with dogs that I enjoyed most and that is where I am at today. My best coonhound could not kill a coon in a week, but he went hunting for a coon every time and everywhere he was turned out, worked his tracks as he found them and excelled at finding the right tree and staying put letting the world know about it when he did. Had a wonderful loud bawl mouth on track and loud ringing chop on the tree. That is the coon hunting I enjoy. We are on the same page here, a 70 lb dog wringing out a 15 lb coon it happens upon in the course of a bird hunt does nothing for me ...
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby AverageGuy » Fri May 26, 2017 4:59 pm

Found this and signed up for it. They do not allow both courses in the same day so I am going to do the Porcupine. I spoke with the guy putting it on from the Idaho Chukar Assoc. Great guy - wonderful conversation. Learned that they use a gopher snake to do their avoidance training and he said my idea of using a snake I can find locally was very feasible ... And I can much more easily find a commercial rattlesnake class elsewhere ...

Passing along the info here: https://www.idahohumanesociety.org/event/?id=7732
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby TX_UplandHunter » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:52 pm

AG, are you in TX? I see this gentleman posting snake avoidance classes quite regularly on the TX Hunting Forum:

http://www.snakebreaker.com
Thanks,

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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:31 am

Thank you. I will check it out.
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby greg moyer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:53 pm

Well how did the quill pig training go?
Did you get a chance to look at some chukar country?
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:03 pm

Well the real test will be when Spud runs up on a Porky but after a couple of negative experiences with them at the training clinic, he wanted no part of a 3rd ...

Yes, The Wife, Spud and I headed over to Baker City and hooked up with Kelly and Harvey at their NAVHDA Chapter's NA test. BEAUTIFUL County! Kelly and I ran Spud on some birds and I really enjoyed having him get some eyes on the pup doing his thing. Then we had a Bone Point Family Reunion at Kelly's place that evening. Made the trip! Great Country, People and Dogs. Can't Beat it.

Spud got to swim in both the Laramie and Snake Rivers which was good exposure for him to handle swift cold water currents, Tracked a Red Fox a couple hundred yards before I toned him off of it, Got into a duck marsh and did a nice impromptu duck search, and worked some Chukars and Pheasant in the bird field at the test site, so all in all a great trip. 3000 miles in 5 days was a little rough.

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Laramie River Retrieve
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Duck Search in the Marsh Along the Laramie River
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Residents of the Marsh that Triggered Spud's Impromptu Search
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We got very Lucky in that Spud passed this Fawn on the Upwind Side while working along the River. I snapped this photo and moved swiftly on.
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby KJ » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:08 pm

AverageGuy,
Thanks for driving the last leg to Baker so I could get a chance to get my eyes on Spud in person, and meet you guys, too. You have really done a nice job with him.
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby ryanr » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:03 pm

Nice photos, gorgeous country. Hope the avoidance training holds up, should be good for at least a season but I think a refresher in a year is something to consider. Don't be so sure you got lucky with the fawn, 2 weeks ago it turned out there was a fawn in our training field ALL day as we did about 20 different field runs with experienced dogs including some excellent UT1 & even a couple VCs. Most of these were GWPs, DDs & a couple GSPs. Not one of them smelled the fawn and number of them ran probably within 10-15 yards, upwind & down. They really are "scent free." It was amazing to see.
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:16 pm

Thank you Kelly, I appreciate the compliment and most of all the puppy you sent me.

Ryan,

Several years ago my Wife was taking our now 13 year old GWP for his afternoon walk and retrieves down by the lake we lived by at the time. A tiny fawn lost its nerve and jumped up just feet from our dog. It did not end well. The Wife was traumatized over it, and I got in hot water because my subsequent 3rd degree was more concerned with how she handled my dog at the time than being sensitive to her trauma over it ...
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Re: Avoidance Training Clinics?

Postby ryanr » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:02 am

AverageGuy wrote:Thank you Kelly, I appreciate the compliment and most of all the puppy you sent me.

Ryan,

Several years ago my Wife was taking our now 13 year old GWP for his afternoon walk and retrieves down by the lake we lived by at the time. A tiny fawn lost its nerve and jumped up just feet from our dog. It did not end well. The Wife was traumatized over it, and I got in hot water because my subsequent 3rd degree was more concerned with how she handled my dog at the time than being sensitive to her trauma over it ...


That had to be ugly. I almost had the same thing happen with my DD last year. He's broke off deer but I saw him react as something got up directly in front of him as he turned the corner in a fencerow opening. I was only a few steps behind and immediately yelled Leave It with a little stim as I rounded the corner tower this tiny fawn bound away in front of him. I wasn't sure if he had it in his mouth yet but I was very glad he responded immediately to my command. Again he never smelled it, the fawn only got up because he practically stepped on her as she lay in the grass.
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