Eating Bird

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Eating Bird

Postby Runningwild » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:23 pm

I have a pup that when she gets her mouth on a fresh bird eats it in minutes is there any tricks to get her to stop the this?
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby Kiger2 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:05 am

Runnignwild,

The program is called Force fetch. I prefer the Dobbs method. You can find it on youtube. Do a search for "trained retrieve" by tri tronics. Its a 6 part series. Or get Bill Hilmanns video on FF.

Now, the most important advice Im going to give yours this. The issue you have is matter of preparation . You put the dog into a situation that it wasn't prepared for (trained for).
There are lots of things the dog needs to be prepared for. Gunfire, coming when called, etc...

This is why you shouldn't let the dog just hunt its first year and then train it.
Hard lesson to learn, but valuable if you learn from it.
It can be hard to fix.
Good luck!

OR get some pro help,or find a training group, or a good amateur trainer to help you through it.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:59 am

When you say you have a pup...how old of a pup? I'm guessing 8 weeks and you don't work it on a CC?
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby Doc E » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:08 am

How old is this "pup" ?
If it's old enuf, then Force Fetch is in order, and I like "Smartfetch" by Evan Graham.
If it's not old enuf for FF, then quit using birds until it is FF.

.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby Runningwild » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:05 am

She is fourth months old and I know about force fetching I was hoping there was a way to prevent it until I can do the force fetch
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby Doc E » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:29 am

Runningwild wrote:She is fourth months old and I know about force fetching I was hoping there was a way to prevent it until I can do the force fetch


STOP using birds.

.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby AverageGuy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:36 am

At 4 months I would have a CC on the puppy always and would be working on a good recall. I setup a tunnel along side my Machine shed using snow fence and used play retrieve with bumpers first to develop the habit of out and back with play retrieving. The tunnel only gives the puppy one direction to go and it is back to me. The CC allows me to pull it gently to me if it is not returning on its own will. I am down on one knee and praising the puppy profusely when it arrives back in my lap. If the puppy is fired up about retrieving I will quickly throw the bumper again so it does not resent giving it up. And I stop after 2-4 retrieves to leave wanting more.

Once I have that accomplished that play retrieve behavior and have introduced birds, I use a dead pigeon in the same tunnel setting. Striving to get an out and back retrieve behavior established at an early age. I would think a pigeon is large enough that it would not be possible for your puppy to swallow it in a hurry. Do not let the puppy chew on the pigeon when it arrives at the bird you toss to the end of the tunnel, but rather call it to you using the trained recall command and if needed gently use the check cord to bring it back to you. I continue to use bumpers more than birds in this setting but if the out and back behavior is going well I use dead pigeons for some retrieves.

If this goes well I would continue it and then advance to short retrieves out in the open but always with the CC on the puppy. Again I start with bumpers and get the correct behavior established before using a dead pigeon. Give the trained recall command and gently pull the puppy back to you with the CC as needed, praise profusely when it arrives. Do not snatch the bumper or bird away from the puppy too quickly. For a couple of retrieves I would throw it again quickly once I do take it from the puppy to keep the game going and the puppy fired up. After two or 3 successes, quickly hide the bumper or bird behind your back and into your game bag , rise and walk away leaving the puppy wanting more.

I would use bumpers only until you have the correct behavior established at this point.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:04 pm

AverageGuy wrote:At 4 months I would have a CC on the puppy always and would be working on a good recall. I setup a tunnel along side my Machine shed using snow fence and used play retrieve with bumpers first to develop the habit of out and back with play retrieving. The tunnel only gives the puppy one direction to go and it is back to me. The CC allows me to pull it gently to me if it is not returning on its own will. I am down on one knee and praising the puppy profusely when it arrives back in my lap. If the puppy is fired up about retrieving I will quickly throw the bumper again so it does not resent giving it up. And I stop after 2-4 retrieves to leave wanting more.

Once I have that accomplished that play retrieve behavior and have introduced birds, I use a dead pigeon in the same tunnel setting. Striving to get an out and back retrieve behavior established at an early age. I would think a pigeon is large enough that it would not be possible for your puppy to swallow it in a hurry. Do not let the puppy chew on the pigeon when it arrives at the bird you toss to the end of the tunnel, but rather call it to you using the trained recall command and if needed gently use the check cord to bring it back to you. I continue to use bumpers more than birds in this setting but if the out and back behavior is going well I use dead pigeons for some retrieves.

If this goes well I would continue it and then advance to short retrieves out in the open but always with the CC on the puppy. Again I start with bumpers and get the correct behavior established before using a dead pigeon. Give the trained recall command and gently pull the puppy back to you with the CC as needed, praise profusely when it arrives. Do not snatch the bumper or bird away from the puppy too quickly. For a couple of retrieves I would throw it again quickly once I do take it from the puppy to keep the game going and the puppy fired up. After two or 3 successes, quickly hide the bumper or bird behind your back and into your game bag , rise and walk away leaving the puppy wanting more.

I would use bumpers only until you have the correct behavior established at this point.



+1. That is a good post. Pups eat birds because there is no recall in place. Keep the pup on a CC and when it picks up the bird smoothly and steadily reel the pup in. Recall cures 95% of most puppy bird handling problems.
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby Duckdon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:25 pm

Runningwild wrote:I have a pup that when she gets her mouth on a fresh bird eats it in minutes is there any tricks to get her to stop the this?


Eats it in minutes......meaning just how many minutes? You need hand on help training your pup.
If you happen to be in the Anchorage/Valley, Alaska region, we have classes starting January 10.
Otherwise, it sound to me like you would benefit from joining a local chapter, VDD/ NAVHDA/JGVUSA or any other local hunting dog group in your area.
Good Luck
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby orhunter » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:50 pm

"Eats it in minutes." Why does the pup have the bird for "minutes"? Sounds like you're creating the opportunity/problem yourself, don't blame the pup.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby gwp4me2 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:30 pm

I guess there is an advantage to using the bigger birds like pheasants and ducks. A pup cant eat them very fast. I would also go to frozen birds for training. A frozen mallard wont even get dented for a long time. Old school, wrap the smaller bird with barb wire.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby gwp4me2 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:45 pm

Kiger2 wrote:Runnignwild,
This is why you shouldn't let the dog just hunt its first year and then train it.
Hard lesson to learn, but valuable if you learn from it.
It can be hard to fix.
Good luck!

Kind of jumping the gun aren't we? The pup is 4 mo. old. The mistake was made as part of the early exposure. Letting a dog just hunt the first year doesn't mean it is totally untouched or exposed. It means you don't/shouldn't wait until you have a finished dog before going hunting. Many, many people only have one dog at a time and are wanting a good hunting dog. A well-bred hunting dog should be able to have a successful first season as a great building block with nothing more than 'play training' and a reasonable recall. Also most people coming on here for the first time asking questions are not experienced trainers capable of putting a very young dog through FF without causing more problems than they cure with a v-dog.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby Densa44 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:42 pm

Don't force anything on a young dog!

There is lots of good advice from the experienced trainers to stop this, you may think of new ones, if they are not using force and they work, go for it.
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby Runningwild » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:10 pm

orhunter wrote:"Eats it in minutes." Why does the pup have the bird for "minutes"? Sounds like you're creating the opportunity/problem yourself, don't blame the pup.

Sorry, what I mean is I throw the bird for her then by the time I get to her in a few seconds she has already started eating it and tearing it up
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Re: Eating Bird

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:53 pm

She's a pup and it's a simple issue, don't over complicate it. Throw her bumpers for a while and as soon as she picks up the bumper, tennis ball, whatever, call HERE and gently guide her in with the CC, then let her hold the object when she gets to you, tell her how great she is, and pet her. Then take the bumper, etc. On a pups first exposure to birds they are overcome by the scent, the feel, the softness. It usually just goes away if you don't let them lay and eat the bird. Recall is EVERYTHING. Simply get the pup coming back to you and I'm sure the problem will disappear. Pups aren't ready for FF until they are between 8 & 10 months old for most of them.

I'm one that hunts mine untrained during the first year. They know NO, STOP, and HERE and that's it.

10 weeks with pigeon.

Image

Six months and a nice point on a SD pheasant.

Image

Here's mine at 7 months old retrieving her first grouse.

Image

So most certainly they can and should be hunted their first year. It shapes the rest of their lives and creates a bold, confident dog..
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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