Hold command question

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Hold command question

Postby CoBoz » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:46 pm

Hello,
I have just started the Smart Fetch program. We at the beginning stages....hold. My dog will hold the painter roller in his mouth great...I'm to the point where I can grab it, tap it, try to knock it out...and he holds it till the release command of "hand". What he does not do is open his mouth and take it when I place it in front of his nose and say "hold". I have to open his mouth and place it in...then everything is good. The book/video doesn't explain if he has to do this or not. Does he have to? Thanks.
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Re: Hold command question

Postby JASmith » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:58 pm

From what I'm reading, that's the 'fetch' command you are trying to get him to do. Hold means "keep this in your mouth". Fetch means "Get this in your mouth" (and then presumably hold it next)
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Re: Hold command question

Postby CoBoz » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:23 pm

Thanks..that's what I was thinking also...just wanted to make sure before we moved forward. The "hold" section in the training is very short and not too clear. I'm going to do a few more days and give him different objects to hold (bumper, dowel) to see how he does.
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Re: Hold command question

Postby GFORCE » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:20 pm

May be a mistake but I am not teaching Hold.
Fetch means put it in your mouth and bring it back
until I say Drop. I throw the bumper he stays
steady until I give the Fetch command or touch his
shoulder and if he drops it enroute or coming out
of the water I repeat Fetch and tap him with collar until he picks it up
and completes the task. His drops have almost stopped
completely in a short time. He doesn't stop to shake
off or drop and shake anymore.

I do see a possible use for it though. When he gets
back to me he sometimes chomps it or mouths it
a little. Then I grab his lower jaw and say NICE!
same command I use when he gets playing to rough.
But even without that grabbing his jaw gets him
to stop the mouthing.
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Re: Hold command question

Postby ryanr » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:45 pm

CoBoz wrote:Hello,
I have just started the Smart Fetch program. We at the beginning stages....hold. My dog will hold the painter roller in his mouth great...I'm to the point where I can grab it, tap it, try to knock it out...and he holds it till the release command of "hand". What he does not do is open his mouth and take it when I place it in front of his nose and say "hold". I have to open his mouth and place it in...then everything is good. The book/video doesn't explain if he has to do this or not. Does he have to? Thanks.


Yes, at some point the dog should start opening its mouth and eventually it'll even eagerly reach for it. Some dogs start opening their mouth for it sooner than others, you're still in the early stages so be patient. It'll likely start happening soon. I'm pretty sure the book does mention this progression to look for. Personally I thought Smart Fetch explains the steps quite well. I used it but with one modification: I only used one command, Fetch, every time I put it in his mouth. Some people use Hold first and then later the Fetch command, others just use Fetch from the get go.

DON'T RUSH THROUGH FORCE FETCH, especially the foundation of hold.
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Re: Hold command question

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:23 pm

I pinch their jowls to get them to open up. That inflicts a slight amount of pain on them and makes the transition to the ear easier. It's just a matter of patience and soon the dog will figure out that if he pops his mouth open, there will be no discomfort.
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Re: Hold command question

Postby Sooty42 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:42 pm

When teaching the hold command how do you stop the dog from rolling/chomping the bumper in their mouth? Or should I not worry about this as long as he does not chomp on birds? (I don’t plan on doing any advanced testing with him, just hunting). When he retrieves the bumper he does not chomp on it much (just does it when sitting and doing the hold command), but will sometimes play with it a little before bringing it to me. He’s 1yr old and this will be his first hunting season, so I’m not FF him just working on hold. Thanks
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Re: Hold command question

Postby ryanr » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:23 pm

If he starts rolling or chomping it you can give him a light tap under the chin and when he stops and holds it correctly, softly praise him. I think in Evan's book he states that as the dog progresses thru FF and is doing walking fetch, etc that issue does tend to clear itself up.
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Re: Hold command question

Postby mastercaster » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:37 pm

ryanr wrote:If he starts rolling or chomping it you can give him a light tap under the chin and when he stops and holds it correctly, softly praise him. I think in Evan's book he states that as the dog progresses thru FF and is doing walking fetch, etc that issue does tend to clear itself up.


Evan Graham will go so far as to give the dog a little bat on top of the muzzle, too, when he's not happy with the "Hold". Plus, he'll bat the top or bottom of the bumper to make the dog take a firmer grip.
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Re: Hold command question

Postby ANick » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:06 am

One of our German judges giving a little session on 'hold'. Pretty interesting approach to teaching the skill.

The year before she showed us this after one of the fellows asked how they trained differently in Germany, especially without the ecollar. Somewhere in that conversation FF training came up and she proceeded to amaze us. Then she borrowed a 7 month old and had that pup up to start walking holding the bumper in two sessions of 10 -15 minutes.. the tail wagging throughout.

For the video, Jen borrowed a 5 month old pup, a little young for a typical FF start as the adult teeth may not be in completely. But, there's no foul here, I think. :)
Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPdkWDq3Y0


P.S. Watch closely around 8:30...
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Re: Hold command question

Postby ryanr » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:53 pm

ANick wrote:One of our German judges giving a little session on 'hold'. Pretty interesting approach to teaching the skill.

The year before she showed us this after one of the fellows asked how they trained differently in Germany, especially without the ecollar. Somewhere in that conversation FF training came up and she proceeded to amaze us. Then she borrowed a 7 month old and had that pup up to start walking holding the bumper in two sessions of 10 -15 minutes.. the tail wagging throughout.

For the video, Jen borrowed a 5 month old pup, a little young for a typical FF start as the adult teeth may not be in completely. But, there's no foul here, I think. :)
Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPdkWDq3Y0


P.S. Watch closely around 8:30...


Haven't watched the video yet but what you describe her being able to do is pretty similar to what we're able to accomplish as well. I tend to think that people that think FF is somehow all about force or discomfort don't really understand it. We want our pups to enjoy doing it.
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Re: Hold command question

Postby ANick » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:49 pm

ryanr wrote:
ANick wrote:One of our German judges giving a little session on 'hold'. Pretty interesting approach to teaching the skill.

The year before she showed us this after one of the fellows asked how they trained differently in Germany, especially without the ecollar. Somewhere in that conversation FF training came up and she proceeded to amaze us. Then she borrowed a 7 month old and had that pup up to start walking holding the bumper in two sessions of 10 -15 minutes.. the tail wagging throughout.

For the video, Jen borrowed a 5 month old pup, a little young for a typical FF start as the adult teeth may not be in completely. But, there's no foul here, I think. :)
Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPdkWDq3Y0


P.S. Watch closely around 8:30...


Haven't watched the video yet but what you describe her being able to do is pretty similar to what we're able to accomplish as well. I tend to think that people that think FF is somehow all about force or discomfort don't really understand it. We want our pups to enjoy doing it.


Spoiler alert, reaching for the bumper about 8 minutes and change into it.
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