Blind Retrieve Training

Pointing, retrieving, flushing, tracking, behavioral issues, puppy training, etc.

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Re: Blind Retrieve Training

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:00 am

Willie T wrote:GH, off topic here but in my eyes, when I think of the greatest retrievers of all time, Honcho was the top dog. Especially if you factor in the offspring he threw.



Back in the day, that was debated a lot. People said since Raider sire Honcho, that really the credit went to Raider. I am not of that opinion. My favorite dog's i ever owned or trained were Honcho dog's. Tractable, smart, naturally talented, drive beyond description. Raider dog's, the ones I trained and that was quite a few, were extremely stubborn and not the brightest lights in the sky. My vote goes to Honcho but certainly a lot of things have changed since those days.

I heard once that they still have some frozen semen from Honcho. Anyone know if that's true?
I just hate seeing birds die of natural causes unless I'm that natural cause.
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Re: Blind Retrieve Training

Postby Kiger2 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:12 pm

AG,
I think you are doing very well.Keep up the good work. You are going to have guys ASK you to bring your dog hunting!

This has been a very good thread. No red flags to comment on.

I dont use the buckets or artificial stuff . I use an approach similar to GH. I walk the dog out. Establish the pile by tossing the buyers on the ground then heel the dog back, line and send. As the dog goes to the pile I back up. Take the bumper, line and resend, back up some more.

I think this approach helps establish the concept of Identifying the desired location and line by how the dog sees the horizon of other natural objects and learn to go where you are looking.

We hunt a lot of big open grass fields with no real identifying factors.

Im curious about what Wille, crackered, and GH would say about cover? I tend to keep them in shorter cover until we get a lot of the problem concepts out of the way.

Lastly, I think to get the dog through the trees you need to get back on dry land and work on pushing through factors obstacles. Doesn't have to be long runs. Crossing a creek,ditch, row of brush, all theses things can cause an issue. Get the concept solved on land.

Going to go work on swim by.

Good luck, you are doing well!
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Re: Blind Retrieve Training

Postby crackerd » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:40 am

Kiger2 wrote:Im curious about what (you) would say about cover? I tend to keep them in shorter cover until we get a lot of the problem concepts out of the way.


Wholly agree. Lots of reasons, but among them are: Low cover gives them less excuse for putting their nose down to start hunting when sent on a blind, and less excuse for not coming to a dead stop on the whistle command.

On the other hand, one those "problem concepts (are) out of the way," I want a dog seeking every bit of cover it can get into on a blind - even if it's seemingly to your detriment as a handler. As yesterday on a double-blind (land & water) during training. I ran the water blind first, then sent the dog over land where the blind was down the edge of a wheat field. Dog got into wheat as trained (wheat grown as a cover crop, not for Wonder Bread) and I handled her with a single cast at a different angle to the blind. A little TMI for a versatile forum, but that's exactly the kind of counter-indicative blind a FT judge would throw at you, especially if it were a double-blind which happens sometimes in trials. A FT retriever gets wet (goes into the water) and training indicates to the dog that it should be getting wet again...and again, rather than taking its blind-running game to dry land. But again, TMI - I totally agree with what Kiger's posted above.

MG
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Re: Blind Retrieve Training

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:44 pm

No argument from me about low cover vs taller cover. A bird dog wants to search when it gets into cover, land or water. We had enough success in low cover on land that I thought it was productive to work some cover on land. That is what we did for the past 5 days. I removed the bucket targets but continued to work the same area so it would be easier. The right over on the setup is the toughest one as there is a low spot dip with taller cover to cross. The cover overall is pretty thick and 3-4 feet tall. Have only been working 6 retrieves each morning. Each day has had one error, which I was able to correct with handling, usually the error was on the right over.

This morning was meant to be mostly a mental break working some upland cover, but I decided to try a water blind on a pond with alot of cover around the edges both in the water and the bank. Did not go very well. He smelled something that was compelling him to go to his right. To my eye he understood where I was signaling him to go and started there several times, he just seemed to smell something he was compelled to check out on the right bank and was unwilling to let me override it. Interested in what your experts think. Poor job filming with the iphone but good enough to see what happened for the most part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SFIWSnRj_U
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Re: Blind Retrieve Training

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:48 pm

Casting in water is hard because the dog has momentum for one direction and that resists changing directions. You have to let him stop and look back before giving the cast. In other words you are tooting and casting almost simultaneously. You might have gotten a better cast if you'd have given a whistle to come in a few feet and then give the change of direction cast. He did take a really nice over to the left as he was getting close to the right hand shore which was impressive (most inexperienced dogs would prefer to be on land it can be hard to get them to head out to big water).

You've got a real nice dog with lots of potential!
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Re: Blind Retrieve Training

Postby Willie T » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:22 pm

Nice AG. You guys are well on the way. Not sure how far to open this can of worms so I'll just talk about it some. On blinds dogs tend to drift with terrain and wind. Suction such as a dead bird(poison bird) that may be visable(when the object is a cripple in the cats), or simply favoring the path of least resistance, an animal or a smell etc. will all pull the dog off line. There are various ways to cope with these influences. The first is factoring it into the geometry of the initial cast. Second is to square the dog up to you as Bruce suggested on subsequent casts. It sets the dog up for better results if back is a consistent 180 degrees from where it is facing. Another is to teach the dog to spin off the shoulder that corresponds to the hand you give the back with. In other words, a left handed back, the dog would spin to the left and go back 180 degrees. A right handed back, it would spin to the right and go back 180 degrees. On the surface they both send to the same place. It gives the handler the ability to spin the dog into the wind or terrain or spin it away from trouble. Quite effective at times. I don't sense that you are interested in literal casting and following it up with swim by, but a slight angle back, slightly away from what ever was pulling him may have been effective too. If you keep putting in the work together, the rapport you develop will only get stronger.
Nice Work-
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Re: Blind Retrieve Training

Postby AverageGuy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:41 pm

Thank you Both.

Willie T, yes the wind was pulling him into that large cover on the right bank. You can easily see him getting scent and pulling his head up and going to the right bank. If sent into the wind things go much easier but we must try these to move forward. Water with low cover banks would be much easier and I need to go find some. Looked around the internet today and there is a Retriever Club with training grounds a couple of hours north. Looking into it.
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Re: Blind Retrieve Training

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:43 pm

Relative to the retrieving drill thread - Keeping it fun and stretching things out in cover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbjCPY3ySOM
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