Loud on track?

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Loud on track?

Postby randomnut » Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:01 pm

New guy here. Been lurking a long time, but had a few questions I haven't seen before.

I've got a 11 month DD. I'd like for him to be loud on scent. I've tried to get him on as many rabbits as possible, with dismal results.

If he can see the game (rabbits, hogs, squirrels), he is loud, but silent on scent only.

Any way to encourage him to be loud on scent?

Thanks in advance
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby huntinmo » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:17 pm

That is most likely an inherited trait, were either or both of his parents scent loud? :?
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby JTracyII » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:35 pm

Correct,

Someone with more knowledge than I can speak to this, but this is most certainly a genetic trait. I believe that one parent must be scent loud for some of the pups in the litter to possess this trait. It is bred for within the Teckel Community. I don't think this is necessarily bred for by all DD members, but is a trait that gets noted on a pups pedigree from hunt tests it participates in, I believe.
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby Densa44 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:11 pm

Maybe it is genetic, in my case with PPs Grandma barks when she sees the shot gun! I don't like it. However when they, all three of them cross a rabbit trail they all bark and only 2 of them are related. I think they can learn this from one another. Just my experience.
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby 3drahthaars » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:09 am

It's genetic, and this is why it is noted on the test score sheets and other documentation.

I believe that there are more sight loud and spur loud dogs around, and the reason that we don't know it is that not enough get the exposure necessary on hare or fox to bring it out much less bring it out at the tests.

One of the weaknesses in the testing system is that we barely have time and game rich venues to provide for enough tracks to evaluate dogs (I've heard of pups scored on a single track in some tests), much less get loudness evaluations. These are noted as questionable on the score sheets.

When there are enough rabbits/hare and time, anecdotally 80% of the pups in a test are at least sight loud. In some venues, time allowing we've been able to offer additional tracks after evaluation to get at least sight loud marks.

So, short answer long... to get a dog loud it requires proper exposure to furred game tracks. Some pups need more than others...

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Re: Loud on track?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:35 am

My pup is loud on sight and scent, but weather she actually gives voice is intermittent. She had an opportunity on a fox last week but it gave us the slip. It was neat to see her vocalize when she first hit the track, but she does not continue to vocalize while tracking.
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby randomnut » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:48 am

Thanks folks. I'm gonna try to live trap some cottontails, then get him excited about them. I've got a large field to train in, and will let the rabbit loose while he watches. I've got a VJP coming soon, and while he's pushed out 7 or 8 for me hunting this year, I've been unable to hit one. While i work on the rabbit track, maybe he'll show that he can get loud on scent. If not, no big deal.
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:38 pm

Only let him have one sight chase. More than that will encourage him to use his eyes instead of his nose.
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby 3drahthaars » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:55 pm

randomnut wrote:Thanks folks. I'm gonna try to live trap some cottontails, then get him excited about them. I've got a large field to train in, and will let the rabbit loose while he watches. I've got a VJP coming soon, and while he's pushed out 7 or 8 for me hunting this year, I've been unable to hit one. While i work on the rabbit track, maybe he'll show that he can get loud on scent. If not, no big deal.


Practically, unless you can use your dog to drive large game I'm not sure of what the spurlaut will give you. If you wish to do a 24 / 48hr blood track it qualifies you to enter, but so does sight loud for that matter. Otherwise, it's a nice that is practical in Europe, likewise for breeding and selling pups to European hunters, but has limited applications (to my knowledge and hunting style) here in the states.

What I've always wanted (and only had once) was a dog that pointed rabbits as well as feathered game... it makes it easier to get them in the bag.

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Re: Loud on track?

Postby randomnut » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:42 pm

3drahthaars wrote:
randomnut wrote:Thanks folks. I'm gonna try to live trap some cottontails, then get him excited about them. I've got a large field to train in, and will let the rabbit loose while he watches. I've got a VJP coming soon, and while he's pushed out 7 or 8 for me hunting this year, I've been unable to hit one. While i work on the rabbit track, maybe he'll show that he can get loud on scent. If not, no big deal.


Practically, unless you can use your dog to drive large game I'm not sure of what the spurlaut will give you. If you wish to do a 24 / 48hr blood track it qualifies you to enter, but so does sight loud for that matter. Otherwise, it's a nice that is practical in Europe, likewise for breeding and selling pups to European hunters, but has limited applications (to my knowledge and hunting style) here in the states.

What I've always wanted (and only had once) was a dog that pointed rabbits as well as feathered game... it makes it easier to get them in the bag.

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I love to rabbit hunt also, and it's easier to tell where the bunny's headed with a scent loud dog. The 40 hour blood track is something I really want to do also. The pup seems great on blood tracks, at least overnight tracks, using 4oz blood over 350-400 yards.
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:16 pm

3drahthaars wrote:
What I've always wanted (and only had once) was a dog that pointed rabbits as well as feathered game... it makes it easier to get them in the bag.

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It doesn't seem to help me. I either can't see them or they take off like rocket ships when I approach. I'm yet to feel I have a shot on a cottontail despite Vegas reliably pointing them.
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby Wolfgang » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:38 pm

randomnut wrote:Thanks folks. I'm gonna try to live trap some cottontails, then get him excited about them. I've got a large field to train in, and will let the rabbit loose while he watches. I've got a VJP coming soon, and while he's pushed out 7 or 8 for me hunting this year, I've been unable to hit one. While i work on the rabbit track, maybe he'll show that he can get loud on scent. If not, no big deal.


You can trap 100 rabbits and let your dog sight chase and he will not do a single yelp on scent if its not an inherited trait with him/her .And for the records at VJP/HZP it wouldn't even help IF your dog opens on rabbit scent cause only hare or fox counts for recognized spl.
If a dog has this inherited trait of spl it will come all by itself at about six mo old with teckels or terriers and usually a little later with V-dog breeds but if you haven't heard any scent loud after 12 mo of age there is no or very little chance it will show up later the amount of worked scent tracks doesen't matter in any way.
Young Dachshunds/Teckel start to open on the first track immediately when they are around 7-8 mo old.Moust hound breeds (Bracken artige) have this trait very strong genetically fixed while its unusual and unnecessesary for pointing/V-dog breeds.
Many spl records marked spl on scoresheets are more waidlaut than scentloud and are a desaster and a pain in the a$$ while hunting with such a dog.
Correct spl shows in working the first few yards of the track silent until it gets hot than opening with good tongue ,shut up immediately when the hare is zigzagging and the dog is off track and circeling to get back and start opening again when he/she hit it again.
The nervous overexcited and highstrung yodelers who cry like a chainsaw already when lead to the track and continue doing it until the hare has disappeared on horizon should be by a knowledgable an ixperienced team of VR's brought to a field, [b]which is prooven to be game free by a different dog,and turned loose for a free independant search and tested for the severe fault of waidlaut.

[/b
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby randomnut » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:17 pm

Thanks again folks. My plan was to let pup see the rabbit run off, then set him on track. He needs more experience for the VJP rabbit track anyway, so it can't hurt. Can it? I
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:31 pm

Nope. That's exactly what I tried to do last year. Ended up catching coons instead. Dogs still had a grand time
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Re: Loud on track?

Postby 3drahthaars » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:14 pm

Wolfgang wrote:
randomnut wrote:Thanks folks. I'm gonna try to live trap some cottontails, then get him excited about them. I've got a large field to train in, and will let the rabbit loose while he watches. I've got a VJP coming soon, and while he's pushed out 7 or 8 for me hunting this year, I've been unable to hit one. While i work on the rabbit track, maybe he'll show that he can get loud on scent. If not, no big deal.


You can trap 100 rabbits and let your dog sight chase and he will not do a single yelp on scent if its not an inherited trait with him/her .And for the records at VJP/HZP it wouldn't even help IF your dog opens on rabbit scent cause only hare or fox counts for recognized spl.
If a dog has this inherited trait of spl it will come all by itself at about six mo old with teckels or terriers and usually a little later with V-dog breeds but if you haven't heard any scent loud after 12 mo of age there is no or very little chance it will show up later the amount of worked scent tracks doesen't matter in any way.
Young Dachshunds/Teckel start to open on the first track immediately when they are around 7-8 mo old.Moust hound breeds (Bracken artige) have this trait very strong genetically fixed while its unusual and unnecessesary for pointing/V-dog breeds.
Many spl records marked spl on scoresheets are more waidlaut than scentloud and are a desaster and a pain in the a$$ while hunting with such a dog.
Correct spl shows in working the first few yards of the track silent until it gets hot than opening with good tongue ,shut up immediately when the hare is zigzagging and the dog is off track and circeling to get back and start opening again when he/she hit it again.
The nervous overexcited and highstrung yodelers who cry like a chainsaw already when lead to the track and continue doing it until the hare has disappeared on horizon should be by a knowledgable an ixperienced team of VR's brought to a field, [b]which is prooven to be game free by a different dog,and turned loose for a free independant search and tested for the severe fault of waidlaut.

[/b


Wolf,

Good point about waidlaut! I've heard this from some other German VRs, too. VRs too quick to assign the spl note to a dog.

I've been lucky in the 2 out of about 400 pups I've judged who I noted as spl. As you stated, we actually saw the dogs cut (cross) the track several times before zeroing in and could see/hear the yips and then silence as it cut then overshot the track. They definitely only gave tongue when on the track and quickly stopped when off... spurlaut for sure.

Too often inexperienced (and some experienced VRs) jump the gun on spl, because it is such a novel thing to note on a score sheet. However, when you have the opportunity to evaluate a truly spl dog... it is something that you never forget, and more importantly it is an observation that you truly appreciate for its usefulness in the field.

I and a VJT judge evaluated two spl Teckels to qualify for VSwP, and after the evaluation on a luck fox track, one got on deer. We easily positioned ourselves based on the baying to where we could have had easy buckshot shots on the running animals as they passed. I'm basically a still (stand) hunter, but if the laws allowed in my county, with Teckels I'd almost be tempted to give it a try.

Best regards,

Bob
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