No more dual registered DD's?

DKV and VDD, etc

Moderator: Moderator Pack

No more dual registered DD's?

Postby leadeyedbugger » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:09 pm

I saw a couple blurbs about dd's no longer being dual registerable. Or something to that affect. I was wondering if there was any real information on this. Not being a club membe anymore I am not privy to what's going on here. I would see this as a big deal if I could not register my dog in navdha without possibly being booted from vdd-gna. Any more info on where this stands or what is going on....
leadeyedbugger
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:34 am

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby JTracyII » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:31 pm

I don't have a DD or GWP, but as I think through the possible effects of such a rule I think there are several possibilities. I could see this benefiting the GWA in some ways due to the large numbers in this country that have access to NAVHDA training days and tests that are far from a VDD training or testing group. However, this could also have a negative impact on the GWA given that they will have less access to DD breed stock. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Maybe both groups will benefit in some ways.
Last edited by JTracyII on Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JTracyII
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1677
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:42 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:50 pm

This is true, going into effect in the next few months I believe.

They are trying to work something out with NAVDHA to create a testing only registry for DD. Nothing prevents us from being members or training, we just can't test for the time being. I'm hopeful something can be worked out, I was planning on testing the new pup in NA for fun.

Any member with a dual registered dog that is caught breeding outside the VDD will be banned from the club.
Vivian II vom Jagdkonig- VJP 71 HZP 191 VGP 262 Prize III
Arabella vom Hoheren Boden- VJP 74 HZP 181/189 VGP 281 Prize I
User avatar
Misskiwi67
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1808
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby Freeze » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:00 pm

I understand the proposed reason, and I can support it; but I think it was approached poorly.

If what they truly want to stop is breeding outside of the VDD, great.

What I don't understand, if outside breeding is the true purpose for the regulation, why they would write the rule requiring a change to the NAVHDA registration model.
I believe the exact same breeding prohibitions could have been accomplished buy writing the rule to say any dog having an unrestricted registration would be a violation.

If so written, then every member who chose to register their DD with NAVHDA would be able to do so, under the current NAVHDA model, as "breeding restricted". That would prohibit future registration of the offspring within NAVHDA and still allow any and all testing. If the restriction was ever lifted for a dog that would then be a violation of the VDD policy and they could proceed with their penalties.

This NAVHDA framework exists and seems, to me, to solve the problem as defined by the VDD.
According to NAVHDA:

A Breeding Restriction may be requested for a dog when the individual registration application is submitted, provided the application, together with a request for such restriction, is filed by the owner(s) of the litter at birth or the owner(s) of the single registration.

Each registration certificate for such dog shall carry notice of the restriction, and the restriction shall continue, regardless of any change of ownership, unless and until the owner(s) of the litter at birth or the owner(s) at time of single registration shall apply to NAVHDA for removal of the limitation.


Regardless of this or future regulation, I told my breeder that my dog would never be bred outside the VDD.
I gave my word, and I stand by it.


-Freeze
Freeze
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:01 am

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby CohanseyDD » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:45 am

The motion that went over to Germany from GNA did not request any sort of NAVHDA testing restrictions. As happens often with motions, when it went up for "open discussion" at the meeting there was discussion and the motion was revised by the membership and resubmitted. It was then approved and put into place.

I'm not advocating for or against what was done, but you have to remember that the motion was decided by ALL VDD Groups of the WORLD...not just Group GNA. I think there are problems that exist in other parts of the world that were addressed by the modification of the original motion and the resulting impact on NAVHDA/GNA was an "casualty of war."

Disclaimer: All the above is my opinion based upon my perceived understanding of what took place.
CohanseyDD
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:53 am

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby leadeyedbugger » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:22 am

So....What we are looking at is a rule that does not allow you to register your DD with other registries with the reason being to try and cut down or eliminate unauthorized breedings? Hopefully their can be some kind of resolution to allow people to still be involved in NAVDHA testing as well. Is the punishment only if you breed or is the punishment for becoming a member also?
leadeyedbugger
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:34 am

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby DrahtsundBraats » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:30 pm

Hans Werner Monreal gave an interview for the German magazine Pirsch (which means the "stalk") in which he said,

Wir verstehen uns in erster Linie als Informations- und Steuerungs-Platform. So müssen alle Zuchtregeln, die in Deutschland gültig sind, auch in allen Mitgliedsverbänden verstanden und erfüllt werden.


Here Hr. Monreal is speaking about the Weltverband (world DD Federation world organization) and the relationship with Germany, the parent club of the breed. Translated it goes something like this...

We understand our selves to be a source of information and direction (in the world organization). All the breeding guidelines that are in force in Germany, must be understood and complied with by the member organizations.


Therefore, cross breeding in any of the member clubs would need to be addressed through the Breeding Regulations (Zuchtordnung) of the VDD. Only after changes in these regulations can they become effective within the entire DD Federation.

I think if members here were more aware of the concerns in the Federation, there may have been more understanding of the need for the changes.
DrahtsundBraats
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:41 am

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby Freeze » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:21 pm

Again it seems the goal is to eliminate breed certified DDs from producing pups that can be registered in any other registry.
I am on board, and all for that.

I still feel that the regulation of poorly constructed.

I don't see why the regulation wasn't crafted to allow registration in outside registries, as long as said registrations included a breeding restriction.
Obviously if an outside registry doesn't allow for limited registration, then that registry would not be permissible.

I'm certainly not a lawyer, nor do I have the experience of many involved in the decision making .... and it took me all of 10 seconds to realize this would resolve the issue and avoid, what appears to be, the most significant "causality of war".


OR ..... The cynical side of me thinks ....

There is a different agenda!
I hate to think that way but we see this sort of thing all the time here in the US. Regulation which on the surface appears to be benign, yet the "unintended" result fall exactly inline with the general narrative of the involved party.


-Freeze
Freeze
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:01 am

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby Chadwick » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:35 pm

My understanding was that the basis for this change was started by VDD-GNA. Is that not correct?
Chadwick
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby DrahtsundBraats » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:31 pm

My understanding was that the basis for this change was started by VDD-GNA. Is that not correct?


GNA did send motions to the Annual Meeting in Germany. But, I think it would be unwise to assume that GNA is solely responsible for changes that have been made. I know that in the past, for instance, GWPs imported from America were bred into kennels in Spain and there have been other examples in the Federation countries. I had heard that there were some conversations about breeding with New Zealand as they prepare to become part of the federation.

I think it would be best to wait for clarification. I was disappointed too with members now being unable to register in other registries to test or merely to find another challenge. But, we are members of a far larger
organization that must deal with issues in 21 countries (and growing). I don't think that GNA by itself would move the needle much as far as these issues.

I'm sure that the next newsletter will have more detail. Keep training....hunting season is only 5 months away!!!
DrahtsundBraats
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:41 am

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby 3drahthaars » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:43 pm

DrahtsundBraats wrote:
My understanding was that the basis for this change was started by VDD-GNA. Is that not correct?


GNA did send motions to the Annual Meeting in Germany. But, I think it would be unwise to assume that GNA is solely responsible for changes that have been made. I know that in the past, for instance, GWPs imported from America were bred into kennels in Spain and there have been other examples in the Federation countries. I had heard that there were some conversations about breeding with New Zealand as they prepare to become part of the federation.

I think it would be best to wait for clarification. I was disappointed too with members now being unable to register in other registries to test or merely to find another challenge. But, we are members of a far larger
organization that must deal with issues in 21 countries (and growing). I don't think that GNA by itself would move the needle much as far as these issues.

I'm sure that the next newsletter will have more detail. Keep training....hunting season is only 5 months away!!!


Considering how this has surfaced here more out of rumor and conjecture, valid points.

Before we get wrapped around the axel, let's wait until the facts have been presented in the form of the "motion" as penned and presented to VDD, the amendments prior to the vote, and from that pronounce judgment.

With that, I look at this from one perspective... there's always two reasons for everything... the "good" reason, and the REAL reason. The latter generally doesn't surface very quickly or at all, unless you really DIG.

Personally, I'm following the last suggestion about hunting season, because politics, personal agenda, and BS aside... we're all for the most part in this because we're hunters, and hunting with our dogs is / should be our passion. This rule isn't going to affect me in the slightest. I didn't get my pup for test scores, to socialize with people at tests or training days, or to breed.

So, I'm just going to watch this train wreck from a distance and focus my efforts towards next hunting season...

Regards,

3ds
User avatar
3drahthaars
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby leadeyedbugger » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:17 pm

So this is something in the works that will come to some kind of vote at some point soon? Will those of you that have access to the information let us know when something decided upon?
leadeyedbugger
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:34 am

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby JTracyII » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:34 pm

What happens to those who have dogs already registered with both (NAVHDA AND the VDD). I know there are folks that have such a dog that qualified for the invitational this year. Will they be grandfathered in or will they not be allowed to do the invitational?
JTracyII
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1677
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:42 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby Steven » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:10 am

leadeyedbugger wrote:So this is something in the works that will come to some kind of vote at some point soon? Will those of you that have access to the information let us know when something decided upon?


No the decision has already been made. Registration of a DD into another "breeding" registry will be a violation of the VDD breeding regulations. If I recall, doing so carries a penalty only on the dog. Actually breeding a dog outside of the registry will be cause for removal of both the dog and the owner. The revised rules were read and expounded upon by the GNA Chairman at the Big Rivers Chapter meeting this month.

We are now entering implementation phase which is where the water gets muddy . . . . What will be done with DDs already in other breeding registries like NAVHDA, full AKC, or full UKC registries? What will come of discussions between NAVHDA & GNA? Etc. What limited registries that already exist would not violate these new rules? AKC Purebred Alternative Listing? UKC Performance Listing? These are the questions that work is being done to answer.
"A bird dog already wants to find and point birds. It's my job to take nothing away from that and add those little things that WE want them to do. . ." - Maurice Lindley
User avatar
Steven
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1118
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:57 pm
Location: Northwest Arkansas

Re: No more dual registered DD's?

Postby leadeyedbugger » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:28 am

So this has already happened, but not exactly sure how it will be implemented and/or the ramifications yet...?
leadeyedbugger
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:34 am

Next

Return to German and European Testing Systems

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests