why do people jump ship ??

DKV and VDD, etc

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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby 3drahthaars » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:11 pm

Well, bless you hearts...

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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby ryanr » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:02 pm

woodboro wrote:Miss. is right on by taking the high road..

If 3D wants to work on someone that has years with JGHV clubs , come at me , I have been a member for 30. :lol:
You can tell me how far the DD and DK club has gone from 225 and 125 members till now.

This thread was not to be about a spitting match , it is supposed to be about what mentality people have about leaving a club that
has over 100+ years of breeding tradition , and has put a dog or dogs into your kennels.
*** And maybe how to keep people in the JGHV organization , and strengthen clubs , not diss'in them or posters on here.

Take a breath people... and think about the topic.


Nah, I kinda think ya started this for the conflict.
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:49 pm

ryanr wrote:
woodboro wrote:Miss. is right on by taking the high road..

If 3D wants to work on someone that has years with JGHV clubs , come at me , I have been a member for 30. :lol:
You can tell me how far the DD and DK club has gone from 225 and 125 members till now.

This thread was not to be about a spitting match , it is supposed to be about what mentality people have about leaving a club that
has over 100+ years of breeding tradition , and has put a dog or dogs into your kennels.
*** And maybe how to keep people in the JGHV organization , and strengthen clubs , not diss'in them or posters on here.

Take a breath people... and think about the topic.


Nah, I think ya started it precisely for the conflict.


Perhaps pre-judging and labelling those leaving as "thin skinned" was an important clue as to whether you were seeking to learn something vs pick a fight, as well as a deterrent to open discussion?

I am member of the VDD GNA even though I have never owned a DD and own two GWPs presently. And I am a member of NAVHDA. I find the normal mix of people I value and enjoy, and those I am glad to avoid at most training days - VDD Chapter or NAVHDA. Spent 2 out of the last 3 Saturdays at a DD breeder's training days a couple of hours away and have really enjoyed it. Good group of people and dogs - bettering our dogs and having fun while doing it.

I am blissfully ignorant of the internal strife and mechanics of the VDD GNA other than the infamous "no NAVHDA" debacle. That was telling however, and I think it absolutely revealed some leadership problems at the time it occurred. The degree to which they have been fixed or remain I have no idea.

The only thing I question about the VDD GNA based on my personal observations is I think the testing and judging would bring more objectivity and value to evaluating the dogs if it were not done within a single breed test system. As is, it can take on a bit of a mutual admiration society that does not best serve a critical evaluation of a dog for breeding purposes. The likelihood of multiple breed Judges in a NAVHDA test brings greater value to the evaluation in my opinion. Yes the JGHV has multiple breeds but the vast majority of DDs are evaluated within a 100% DD test sponsored by the VDD GNA by Judges who own and breed DDs. A good system for sure, but could be better if it had a bigger mix of experience and objectivity in the evaluation process is my notion.

Sure do like the dogs and most of the people.
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby randomnut » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:23 pm

My simple opinion.

I've been to plenty of training days and tests. Always been treated well and had a good time. I've met lots of highly respected folks in the VDD, who seemed to have lots of knowledge about their dogs and training.

After meeting a lot of these folks, hunting with a few and their dogs, and a whole lot of listening, I've formed my own opinion of my club chapter.

No hard feelings, but in my opinion, more often than not, these well known and highly respected breeders, well, they're putting out crap dogs.

Sure, almost all Drahts will be fine hunters. I just cannot get over the lack of thought going into some of these breedings.

It's a whole lot of "Good Ole boy", "Awe shucks, Billy Joe has a good looking dog, let's hook em up", mentality.

I cannot understand the desire to breed a dog unless you expected excellent results from the breeding.

Yeah, most breedings will be good, but to the folks who think the testing system almost guarantees great dogs with no issues, good luck.

I wish breeders would strive for excellence and not mediocrity.

And that, could be the issue that causes me to leave.
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby 3drahthaars » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:40 pm

AverageGuy wrote:


Perhaps pre-judging and labelling those leaving as "thin skinned" was an important clue as to whether you were seeking to learn something vs pick a fight, as well as a deterrent to open discussion?

I am member of the VDD GNA even though I have never owned a DD and own two GWPs presently. And I am a member of NAVHDA. I find the normal mix of people I value and enjoy, and those I am glad to avoid at most training days - VDD Chapter or NAVHDA. Spent 2 out of the last 3 Saturdays at a DD breeder's training days a couple of hours away and have really enjoyed it. Good group of people and dogs - bettering our dogs and having fun while doing it.

I am blissfully ignorant of the internal strife and mechanics of the VDD GNA other than the infamous "no NAVHDA" debacle. That was telling however, and I think it absolutely revealed some leadership problems at the time it occurred. The degree to which they have been fixed or remain I have no idea.

The only thing I question about the VDD GNA based on my personal observations is I think the testing and judging would bring more objectivity and value to evaluating the dogs if it were not done within a single breed test system. As is, it can take on a bit of a mutual admiration society that does not best serve a critical evaluation of a dog for breeding purposes. The likelihood of multiple breed Judges in a NAVHDA test brings greater value to the evaluation in my opinion. Yes the JGHV has multiple breeds but the vast majority of DDs are evaluated within a 100% DD test sponsored by the VDD GNA by Judges who own and breed DDs. A good system for sure, but could be better if it had a bigger mix of experience and objectivity in the evaluation process is my notion.

Sure do like the dogs and most of the people.


I underlined your statement, because it was a bone of contention for me several years back when I tried to co-sponsor tests with the DK and PP clubs to 1) give them a hands up and 2) offer DD VRs and RANWs opportunities to judge other breeds.

A very experienced DD judge told me that all judges should understand the different hunting breeds to understand what we were evaluating more thoroughly, and I took it to heart.

I was met at EVERY possible point with opposition.

I did however get one GNA RANW the opportunity to apprentice with a respected German PP VR and the experience of evaluating PPs and KLMs at the very first VPP-GNA VJP... It turned out to be a checked box for her, but for me it was an eye opening experience that influenced my judging ever since.

The following year a couple of apprentice applications were denied because of not fulfilling the Out of Group requirement (out of chapter wasn't accepted)... our chapter's apprentice wasn't.

Short of the JGHV work around which is a formality for out of group that utilizes the same DD judges in most cases, the co-sponsoring was a win/win proposition for GNA and any group that took it up. In my opinion, a JGHV test in a chapter, utilizing the same DD judges and judging only DDs doesn't completely satisfy the spirit of the requirement.

So, I agree... I love the dogs...

Other than that I apologize to some of you for getting "trolled"... the OP was not a solicitation for honest remarks as evidenced by my first response.


Kindest regards to those truly interested in the answers,

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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:56 pm

Must be a Midwest thing, but most of my tests have had a PP or Longhair JGHV judge at the test.
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby GRIFF MAN » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:44 am

ryanr wrote:
Nah, I kinda think ya started this for the conflict.



Wow, finely some honesty !!!!

Every time I see a DD thread I have to peek in read a bit of it. Entertaining as always !!



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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby Duckdon » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:52 am

3drahthaars wrote:
woodboro wrote:Lately some people in the DK and DD world , are leaving their GNA club and joining Canada groups, or other JGHV clubs.
Why ...

No respect and support for current (what we could call mother club in their back yard) ???

riff over a board member or club member ???

I call it thin skin ,, but why are most of these people jumping ship , instead of strengthening the organization >> ???


Well, since you have already arrived at a conclusion and "call it thin skin",

I see no reason for confusing you with the facts... because you've already made up your mind.

FWIW, as soon as I finish my 25th year with GNA I'm going to Group Canada or VPP.

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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby woodboro » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:24 pm

[quote="3drahthaarsWell, since you have already arrived at a conclusion and "call it thin skin",

I see no reason for confusing you with the facts... because you've already made up your mind.

FWIW, as soon as I finish my 25th year with GNA I'm going to Group Canada or VPP.

3ds[/quote]
I beg your pardon -
If you have an issue with the DK or DD club , why do you need to reach and complete your 25th year and then leave ??
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby Lurker » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:57 am

woodboro wrote:I beg your pardon -
If you have an issue with the DK or DD club , why do you need to reach and complete your 25th year and then leave ??


It appears that people aren't as thinned skinned as they just don't want to pay dues to be associated with people with attitudes like yours. If you are representing "your" clubs you are only re-enforcing why people should "jump ship" or leave.
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby woodboro » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:10 am

Its amazing on this board , if and when someone asks a simple question , the right to ask a question is right away slammed back into
someone's face. :crazyeyes:
Previous poster : congratulation's , pat your-self on the back.
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby ryanr » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:52 pm

woodboro wrote:Its amazing on this board , if and when someone asks a simple question , the right to ask a question is right away slammed back into
someone's face. :crazyeyes:
Previous poster : congratulation's , pat your-self on the back.


You asked anything but a simple question, you asked a loaded question and the thing is a number of us have a hard time believing you posted it not knowing exactly that. Not the first time.
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby SMAbby » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:54 pm

Or, maybe you jump ship because you are tired of being fed bull$#*! day in and day out and want to actually enjoy your dog with the limited time you have left on earth.

It may have a little bit to do with "Half empty" mindsets, but I am positive that those negative attitudes started out positive and were driven negative.
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Re: why do people jump ship ??

Postby Calvinator » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:40 pm

I'm not a DD owner or breeder. I did test a PP in a couple Euro tests. I saw many very nice DD and a few DD that I wouldn't personally own. As an outsider looking in, I could see the good ole boy system at work as well as the evident arrogance by many of the DD people I encountered. Perhaps that is why people are seeking something else.
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