Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby Stretch » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:46 pm

Barrett chased deer one time while we was bird hunting. I corrected it immediately and he has never done it again. Sense that time I’ve found four deer with him and I didn’t have a problem when blood tracking or after the fact while upland hunting. I didn’t even know if he would blood track before I took him because I had done no training at all with blood tracking. I just took him to the blood put his nose in it and said find it and away he went. He took us right to the deer and went on point like it was bird.

Coon has been a little different he don’t like passing one of them up. I’ve tried to break him of it but he most really like the taste of them is all I can guess!!!
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby leadeyedbugger » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:47 pm

Like others have said. Most versatile hunting dogs, regardless of breed will have to be trained not to go after fur.

My personal belief, is that if you pick a good breeder you will get a good dog and to make it a sufficient hunting dog will not take a ton of training. The real training comes into play for how “broke” you want your dog. Or how finished you want it. Finished dogs take time and training, but finished dogs are not necessary for having a good hunting dog that you will enjoy.

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned. But since we are talking wirehaired breeds. A lot of the more serious, well known breeders have pretty big waiting lists. And most of them like to see the dogs that they sell tested in whichever ftesting club their chosen breed belongs to. If you think you might be interested in testing and you already know that you have no interest in the dog being on fur at all, then that may be something to think about when it comes to dd’s. Not a huge issue but it is there

My biggest advice would be to do plenty of research. Talk to a lot of breeders, go see some dogs in person. Ask people very pointed questions about their dogs. Think about what you want in a dog. It’s demeanor, living in a family environment the type of hunting you want to do etc.

I also live in Spokane wa. I don’t have a dog currently although I have had many over the years. I am hoping to land a pudelpointer pup later this year. I know a fair number of wirehaired people in the northwest from a breeder standpoint. Feel free to send me a message or we could meet up for a drink or something and talk dogs. I am pretty new to the area and hooking up with someone to train with later when get the dogs would be pretty cool. Good luck
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby JONOV » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:04 pm

ryanr wrote:I can pretty easily call my DD off fur if need be and when we're hunting birds he knows what we're after and hunts accordingly. He's much more apt to give chase to fur when he knows we're just on an exercise trek, especially since he knows I'll oblige him a bit at that time and let him have some fun hightailing it after a fox or coyote or keeping a check on the groundhog population for the local farmer.

Funny you mention that, this was the product of our walk last night:
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby draht1516 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:17 pm

Mountainhunter76 wrote:
draht1516 wrote:First time dog owner and first time versatile dog owner to boot. I looked into mostly wirehairs because 1) Waterfowl ability was a MUST for me and 2) I love the look :)

I live in an area where breeders are limited and I ended up going with one that was highly engaged with guys who bought pups from him and the club he belonged to. I looked into WPGs, PPs, CFs, DDs, SMs, even BFs and ended up buying a DD for the support the breeder and club would be able to provide. I believe the support you'll be able to get from amateur and experienced bird dog owners alike is super important. Being able to text/call or even hunt with my pups siblings, the breeder and members of the club have been incredibly helpful. Cant stress that enough.

If you're interested in waterfowl, I'd focus on a breed that is well known for waterfowl and suited for cold water conditions e.g. the wirehairs. I'd ignore any anecdotal examples of owners claiming other breeds excelling in this area that aren't particularly known for being strong waterfowl dogs. Not to say they aren't true but as a first timer, I wouldn't take chances on the next 12 years and rely on genetic ability as much as you can. Take a look at what the breeder hunts and that should give you an idea of what his pups will be able to do.

Lastly, dogs shed. Although, I wouldn't say my DDs shedding is bad at all and he has a long, thick coat. Your wife will forget about it real quick when she sees that puppy for the first time :)


First, thank you for your feedback. I appreciate it very much.
I am researching the wirehaired breeds exclusively. I will not purchase a pup from a breeder that does not waterfowl hunt. It seems pretty clearly to be counter intuitive to what I am looking for.
Do you find your DD to be more "high drive" than what you thought you wanted in a dog. Does it have a good off switch at home? I'm wondering about these and other high prey drive (fur/feather) dogs and running off game when you are bird hunting? If you train them for blood trail, how do you stop them from running deer?? E collar? Is it even a problem?
Was the breeder being local and the support your sole reason for going for a DD??
Thanks,
Chris


Since hes my first versatile dog, I don't know what a mid-low drive dog would look like and whether or not that would be something I'd want. I've never considered his drive to be too much to handle. If you're asking more specifically about his drive on fur then yeah I think that might be something you'd want to consider if you're looking for more of an exclusive bird dog vs a versatile dog. I wanted him to hunt birds, fur (rabbit) and track blood all in the same day (if I were to be so lucky) so I see that as a desirable trait. I haven't had any issues with chasing deer and like you mentioned, I think it would be an easy solve with the ecollar. He has a pretty good off switch but like most things I would look at how the parents act in the breeders home to get an idea of how the pup will turn out. That off switch thing seems to be pretty closely related to how much exercise he's gotten!

The breeder thing definitely wasn't the sole reason. The DD was on my short list regardless but it ended up being a factor in the final decision. I know now that you can pretty easily get that kind of support from clubs like the VDD or NAVHDA. All you have to do it show up and make some friends. I'd still want the breeder to be local so I could see the parents however.

Keep in mind these are all personal opinions from an inexperienced rookie!
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby orhunter » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:06 pm

After my first Griff, I was opening the search for a better dog and had it pretty much nailed down to the DD. Main reason is having a breed club and breeding standards to back up the dogs..... and they had "the look." One day right before actually putting down a deposit, I put the question to the board here at V-Dogs. "Is anyone out there actually breeding hunting type Griffons?" Living on the west coast put me square in the middle of a Griff wasteland and I had to find out if that wasteland extended across all of N. America. Griffman rescued me from my Griff famine by giving me contact information where upon the door swung wide open. I'm not into mentioning names of breeders who don't have websites as I want to maintain their desire to remain anonymous and I'm not going to here but this man took me under his wing and spoon fed me just enough information to make me hungry for the entire meal. The amount of time and effort he put into this cannot be acknowledged by a simple, thank you. I honestly don't have words for it. It was a long and twisted road and after five years of Griff School, I realized how little I knew. At 7 years, I was starting to catch on but it took a lot of miles on the road looking at dogs, talking to people, studying pedigrees, digesting tidbits of information and sorting out what didn't make sense or didn't result in breeding great dogs. You have to be skeptical of everything and consider the source to eliminate gray areas. If I could change two things about me, one would be my age as I'm too old to do anything significant and the other is where I live. I wanna live in bird country. The one thing I did get out of the education was a great dog. It didn't come from the wasteland.

The message here is, everyone starts somewhere. The important thing is just starting and realizing you don't need to do it alone. V-Dogs is a team with more knowledge than what a person can gather on their own and best of all, it's free simply by asking.
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby Buck Dancer » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:13 pm

I was leaning toward a GWP, then I heard they can be sharp with people and high strung in the house. But great hunting dogs ( although they hunt more like they are looking for a meal than trying to find me a bird )

If I was to mostly kennel my dogs, I would go with a GWP or their off-shoot DD. But I did not want to risk one in the home. After all, only the most dedicated hunters among us use our dogs for hunting more that 10% of the days in a year.

I looked at Griffons. Much more low key dogs, goofy, good in the house, very good hunters. But for my taste, just too darn fugly.

I should have looked more into Spinone's. Such calm lovable dogs in the house and around people. I hear finding a good one from great hunting lines is difficult, but I discovered a breeder nearby and have been around some of his dogs and personality wise they are great. Can't comment on hunting ability. I did however happen to see a spinone at a NAVHDA NA test. First time I saw one and it was by far the best dog of the day.

Then I circled back to DD/GWPs because, hunting / shedding wise they were what I wanted. During research I found that they were developed from a careful mixing and crossing of the Griffon, German Shorthaired Pointer, Deutscher Stichelhaar, Deutscher Kurzhaar, and the hunting Pudelpointer in the late 19th century.

Pudelpointer caught my eye as I have seen that breed come up as a great hunting dog a few times over the year. The more I researched, I found they ticked all the boxes.

Great nose
Great hunter (The top breeders work together to better the breed and sell only to hunters)
Great with People and in the House
Light shedder (Wife is Labed out for 20 years of massive shedding)
Pointer for upland and serviceable waterfowl dog. Many do tons of waterfowl hunting but below 20 degrees some of them get cold - their coats vary alot.

So I ended up going with a PP. Mine is only 8 months old but is natural ability I am already seeing is off the charts, my labs were great hunters but this PP is at a whole new level and I kick myself for sticking with labs so long. In the house he is goofy and lovable (although not as calm as most labs but he is still a puppy).

Anyway, I believe you are in the NW. There are some top notch breeders out there. Bob Farris out of Cederwoods Kennel is in Idaho and he pretty much has steered the success of the breed for the last 25 years. I was not able to get a Cederwoods dog but my dog has plenty of star Cederwoods dogs in his background.

If you do facebook, there is a group called the Hunting Pudelpointer that has great info and lots of people that hunt PPs. You can get a good feel for the dogs there.

I would also suggest you look at similar pages for GWPs and Griffon's and any other dog you are interested in.

Good luck!
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:17 pm

orhunter wrote:If I could change two things about me, one would be my age as I'm too old to do anything significant and the other is where I live. I wanna live in bird country.


Exercise and Move is what I do/did. You need a dog, a dog needs you, Harvey. Sorry for the Hijack MTH.
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby orhunter » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:40 pm

Kent: I took care of the half I have control over, hitting the gym 5 days a week, but can't move.... unless I want to be single. I'm going to apply for lots of out of state Pronghorn tags this spring and maybe some Whitetail tags in Wyoming. I know of a farmer who is overrun with Whitetails and I can get all the doe tags I want. The best eating big game animal on the planet is Pronghorns and second is either a spike elk or Whitetails. Kind of a tossup. Besides, I have at least four rifles I've never killed anything with and need to prove their worth.
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:45 pm

MtHunter76,

I agree with the posts urging you to go look at some dogs in all the Wirehair breeds.

It is absolutely easy to find a GWP or DD with an excellent temperament.

Ignore what gets typed far more often than actually experienced and get your own eyes on some of the many excellent ones in your neck of the woods is my advice. And then you will know, what I know.

Many arrive at their breeds with no experience with any other. They fall in love with what they have and when asked recommend them to others.

Hopefully you will look around a good bit before you land.

In doing so I expect you will confirm what I have seen, which is; if you took the best GWP, DD, PP and WPG you would see very little difference in their performance in the field between them. Of the 4, the WPG will most often have the closet range while hunting upland birds but that varies by the individual dog and line of dogs across all the 4 breeds.

The parents of the litter are your best predictors in all areas - performance, appearance and temperament.

The consistent difference I see is the quality of coats and the hit rate on finding a good litter. In those areas more differences show up. But you only need one puppy out of one great litter and that can be found in all 4 wirehair breeds.

Going to visit some Breeders and NAVHDA Chapter functions will be educational and fun.
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby Mountainhunter76 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:39 pm

I have to get to one of these NAVHDA events and get around these dogs, I think it's pretty clear.

I really appreciate the feedback on this thread. The point/counterpoints, discussion and suggestions. Message me if you aren't comfortable posting something here or someone's information I should be contacting(there has already been quite a few mentioned and I have noted those). I have not contacted any breeders yet. Full disclosure,....I'm a bit intimidated and a little overwhelmed. I'm not sure if it's very good form to call the "go-to" person for their breed and question why should I be looking at you/your dogs when I don't know a damn thing myself.
I have to say that this forum has been the single most helpful and engaging group of people I have ever joined, and I have joined and participate in quite a few from hunting to motorcycles and everything in between. Just a terrific group and message board.
Thank you
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby FrankGWP » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:05 pm

Buck Dancer wrote:I was leaning toward a GWP, then I heard they can be sharp with people and high strung in the house. But great hunting dogs ( although they hunt more like they are looking for a meal than trying to find me a bird )

If I was to mostly kennel my dogs, I would go with a GWP or their off-shoot DD. But I did not want to risk one in the home. After all, only the most dedicated hunters among us use our dogs for hunting more that 10% of the days in a year.


I'd humbly recommend a search of this board or maybe a couple of one-on-one chats with people who have owned these animals prior to doling out advise. "A GWP or their off-shoot a DD." ROTFL!! One thing I'm on board with is the PP as an awesome dog.
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby orhunter » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:28 pm

Agree with FrankGWP. You have a lot to learn from those who know the GWP.
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby mastercaster » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:57 am

FrankGWP wrote:
Buck Dancer wrote:I was leaning toward a GWP, then I heard they can be sharp with people and high strung in the house. But great hunting dogs ( although they hunt more like they are looking for a meal than trying to find me a bird )

If I was to mostly kennel my dogs, I would go with a GWP or their off-shoot DD. But I did not want to risk one in the home. After all, only the most dedicated hunters among us use our dogs for hunting more that 10% of the days in a year.


I'd humbly recommend a search of this board or maybe a couple of one-on-one chats with people who have owned these animals prior to doling out advise. "A GWP or their off-shoot a DD." ROTFL!! One thing I'm on board with is the PP as an awesome dog.


So which one would you recommend,,,,the GWP or it's off-shoot? haha
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby ryanr » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:05 pm

Buck Dancer wrote:I was leaning toward a GWP, then I heard they can be sharp with people and high strung in the house. But great hunting dogs ( although they hunt more like they are looking for a meal than trying to find me a bird )

If I was to mostly kennel my dogs, I would go with a GWP or their off-shoot DD. But I did not want to risk one in the home. After all, only the most dedicated hunters among us use our dogs for hunting more that 10% of the days in a year.

I looked at Griffons. Much more low key dogs, goofy, good in the house, very good hunters. But for my taste, just too darn fugly.

I should have looked more into Spinone's. Such calm lovable dogs in the house and around people. I hear finding a good one from great hunting lines is difficult, but I discovered a breeder nearby and have been around some of his dogs and personality wise they are great. Can't comment on hunting ability. I did however happen to see a spinone at a NAVHDA NA test. First time I saw one and it was by far the best dog of the day.

Then I circled back to DD/GWPs because, hunting / shedding wise they were what I wanted. During research I found that they were developed from a careful mixing and crossing of the Griffon, German Shorthaired Pointer, Deutscher Stichelhaar, Deutscher Kurzhaar, and the hunting Pudelpointer in the late 19th century.

Pudelpointer caught my eye as I have seen that breed come up as a great hunting dog a few times over the year. The more I researched, I found they ticked all the boxes.

Great nose
Great hunter (The top breeders work together to better the breed and sell only to hunters)
Great with People and in the House
Light shedder (Wife is Labed out for 20 years of massive shedding)
Pointer for upland and serviceable waterfowl dog. Many do tons of waterfowl hunting but below 20 degrees some of them get cold - their coats vary alot.

So I ended up going with a PP. Mine is only 8 months old but is natural ability I am already seeing is off the charts, my labs were great hunters but this PP is at a whole new level and I kick myself for sticking with labs so long. In the house he is goofy and lovable (although not as calm as most labs but he is still a puppy).

Anyway, I believe you are in the NW. There are some top notch breeders out there. Bob Farris out of Cederwoods Kennel is in Idaho and he pretty much has steered the success of the breed for the last 25 years. I was not able to get a Cederwoods dog but my dog has plenty of star Cederwoods dogs in his background.

If you do facebook, there is a group called the Hunting Pudelpointer that has great info and lots of people that hunt PPs. You can get a good feel for the dogs there.

I would also suggest you look at similar pages for GWPs and Griffon's and any other dog you are interested in.

Good luck!


Good Lord that's a lot of misinformation and hearsay! And I can't speak for all the Facebook groups but I don't think you'll find to many hunters and real hunting dogs on the GWP Facebook group. I certainly wouldn't be going there for advice on good hunting GWPs.
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Re: Looking for bird/duck dog zero experience with them

Postby JONOV » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:07 pm

ryanr wrote:
Buck Dancer wrote:I was leaning toward a GWP, then I heard they can be sharp with people and high strung in the house. But great hunting dogs ( although they hunt more like they are looking for a meal than trying to find me a bird )

If I was to mostly kennel my dogs, I would go with a GWP or their off-shoot DD. But I did not want to risk one in the home. After all, only the most dedicated hunters among us use our dogs for hunting more that 10% of the days in a year.

I looked at Griffons. Much more low key dogs, goofy, good in the house, very good hunters. But for my taste, just too darn fugly.

I should have looked more into Spinone's. Such calm lovable dogs in the house and around people. I hear finding a good one from great hunting lines is difficult, but I discovered a breeder nearby and have been around some of his dogs and personality wise they are great. Can't comment on hunting ability. I did however happen to see a spinone at a NAVHDA NA test. First time I saw one and it was by far the best dog of the day.

Then I circled back to DD/GWPs because, hunting / shedding wise they were what I wanted. During research I found that they were developed from a careful mixing and crossing of the Griffon, German Shorthaired Pointer, Deutscher Stichelhaar, Deutscher Kurzhaar, and the hunting Pudelpointer in the late 19th century.

Pudelpointer caught my eye as I have seen that breed come up as a great hunting dog a few times over the year. The more I researched, I found they ticked all the boxes.

Great nose
Great hunter (The top breeders work together to better the breed and sell only to hunters)
Great with People and in the House
Light shedder (Wife is Labed out for 20 years of massive shedding)
Pointer for upland and serviceable waterfowl dog. Many do tons of waterfowl hunting but below 20 degrees some of them get cold - their coats vary alot.

So I ended up going with a PP. Mine is only 8 months old but is natural ability I am already seeing is off the charts, my labs were great hunters but this PP is at a whole new level and I kick myself for sticking with labs so long. In the house he is goofy and lovable (although not as calm as most labs but he is still a puppy).

Anyway, I believe you are in the NW. There are some top notch breeders out there. Bob Farris out of Cederwoods Kennel is in Idaho and he pretty much has steered the success of the breed for the last 25 years. I was not able to get a Cederwoods dog but my dog has plenty of star Cederwoods dogs in his background.

If you do facebook, there is a group called the Hunting Pudelpointer that has great info and lots of people that hunt PPs. You can get a good feel for the dogs there.

I would also suggest you look at similar pages for GWPs and Griffon's and any other dog you are interested in.

Good luck!


Good Lord that's a lot of misinformation and hearsay! And I can't speak for all the Facebook groups but I don't think you'll find to many hunters and real hunting dogs on the GWP Facebook group. I certainly wouldn't be going there for advice on good hunting GWPs.

The man-sharpness really is a persistent myth. The whole "wild in the house thing" is something I don't find to be true but dogs are individuals and not everyone exercises or stimulates their dogs the same. I've met bat*** Golden Retrievers and lazy, calm Shorthairs. But the funny thing to me is that people then look at a breed that was used in the development of the DD/GWP. As if a PP or Griff isn't going to extirpate a raccoon given half a chance.
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