Livestock insecticide tags?

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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby Coveyrise64 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:10 pm

The same tags are sold OTC for dogs of different weights. The weight of the tag relates to the amount of product as seen at the bottom of the tag (8 grams for 56 lbs +). I have used both the SpectraShield and Y-Tex off an on at times with no problems by trimming and attaching to the collar.

SpectraShield (557x631).jpg

20151001_183045 (800x642).jpg


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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby JTracyII » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:36 pm

If your into saving money have you tried buying a tube of Ivermectin from your local farm store for heartworms? Anyone know if it will also protect against other types of worms?
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:49 pm

JTracyII wrote:If your into saving money have you tried buying a tube of Ivermectin from your local farm store for heartworms? Anyone know if it will also protect against other types of worms?


It will at higher doses. If your math is off by a decimal you will have seizures and/or coma. If your dog licks the tube in the trash, it could die. Very common cause of death in dogs that frequent horse barns and get into the trash.

Unlike the permethrin discussion, ivermectin is very effective. You just need to be VERY accurate with your math.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby AlaskaMagnum » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:37 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Topical application doesn't mean free from side effects. It's your dog, if you want to experiment on them, go for it.


Permethrins are a derivative of the chrysanthemum. Mammals have two or three metabolic pathways to break them down. Insects don't. It's topical NOEL is over 5mg/kg. The LD50 is over 4000 mg/kg and that's an oral dose. For a reference, that would be about a teaspoon of it for every two pounds of bodyweight.

When I go to Asia I soak my clothes in it because I feel it is safer than quinone pills for malaria. I have advanced degrees in toxicology.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby ryanr » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:57 am

My dogs are just NAVHDA dogs so 80% is good enough! :lol: :wink:

In all seriousness permethrin was all the rage 1 or 2 yrs ago for its ability to kill ticks fast. Now it's not good enough? And neither is the Seresto collar? The guys I hunt and train have pretty much all switched over to the Seresto for its cost and length of efficacy and some have been using it for a year and no ticks. The guys I talked with that have used the cow tag method also report finding almost no ticks, and none that are attached. I know when i soak my pant legs in permethrin I'm virtually tick free for quite a while. It's not that I didn't like the oral preventative, I did but I'm having some real tough times right now financially and literally every penny (and prayers) count. The outlook is much brighter for me 6 months from now and especially 1 year from now but right now I'm doing what I gotta do while still putting my dogs first as much as I can (every payday I buy their food first before I spend a dime on myself and though I temporarily switched from Dr. Tims to Diamond Naturals at a $35 savings, the ingredients and nutritional value is virtually the same.) So if you think I'm cheaping out on them, okay then I guess I am.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:27 am

AlaskaMagnum wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:Topical application doesn't mean free from side effects. It's your dog, if you want to experiment on them, go for it.


Permethrins are a derivative of the chrysanthemum. Mammals have two or three metabolic pathways to break them down. Insects don't. It's topical NOEL is over 5mg/kg. The LD50 is over 4000 mg/kg and that's an oral dose. For a reference, that would be about a teaspoon of it for every two pounds of bodyweight.

When I go to Asia I soak my clothes in it because I feel it is safer than quinone pills for malaria. I have advanced degrees in toxicology.


Tell that to the dogs with contact dermatitis.

There's a reason you soak your clothes and not your skin...
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:32 am

ryanr wrote:My dogs are just NAVHDA dogs so 80% is good enough! :lol: :wink:

In all seriousness permethrin was all the rage 1 or 2 yrs ago for its ability to kill ticks fast. Now it's not good enough? And neither is the Seresto collar? The guys I hunt and train have pretty much all switched over to the Seresto for its cost and length of efficacy and some have been using it for a year and no ticks. The guys I talked with that have used the cow tag method also report finding almost no ticks, and none that are attached. I know when i soak my pant legs in permethrin I'm virtually tick free for quite a while. It's not that I didn't like the oral preventative, I did but I'm having some real tough times right now financially and literally every penny (and prayers) count. The outlook is much brighter for me 6 months from now and especially 1 year from now but right now I'm doing what I gotta do while still putting my dogs first as much as I can (every payday I buy their food first before I spend a dime on myself and though I temporarily switched from Dr. Tims to Diamond Naturals at a $35 savings, the ingredients and nutritional value is virtually the same.) So if you think I'm cheaping out on them, okay then I guess I am.


You go ahead and test it out. Just make sure you aren't skipping that annual 4Dx tick tiger and let me know how it works out for you... in Lyme central...

Only 10% of dogs with Lyme get crippling arthritis or Kidney failure... it's worth the risk.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby ryanr » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:54 am

Well my almost 6yr old Drahthaar has basically always tested positive for Lyme, anaplasmosis as well and, knock on wood, has never shown any debilitating symptoms. Prior to that, my Labrador tested positive several times for Lyme in his 10yr life but again never showed any debilitating symptoms. I put him down some time after his colorectal cancer came back a second time. From what my various vets have told me over tje years and what I've read on the subject, most dogs (upwards of 90%) that test positive for it never develop debilitating symptoms. The dogs that are most susceptible are those with already compromised immune systems from poor genetics/breeding or prior illness, etc.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby marsh » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:48 pm

A good friend of mine has been doing this for years. Seems to work well for his dogs.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby GONEHUNTIN' » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:19 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:Are you really going to cheap out on your hunting buddy and use something designed for animals 10 times the size of your dogs? Too much and you risk toxicity. Too little and you are leaving them unprotected...


I'm backing Miss K 110% on what she said.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby LongHammer » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:33 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
JTracyII wrote:If your into saving money have you tried buying a tube of Ivermectin from your local farm store for heartworms? Anyone know if it will also protect against other types of worms?


It will at higher doses. If your math is off by a decimal you will have seizures and/or coma. If your dog licks the tube in the trash, it could die. Very common cause of death in dogs that frequent horse barns and get into the trash.

Unlike the permethrin discussion, ivermectin is very effective. You just need to be VERY accurate with your math.


I think most of the horse barn deaths are from eating horse crap after they are dosed. I know of 1 litter of pups that all died from it. Yes just willy nilly dosing your dogs with poison is not a great idea. I learned from a hounds-men and my vet lifted an eyebrow when I told him what I did. He went back grabbed the product I use and had me show him what I did. I was spot on. I have never seen a single parasite snacking on my dog.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby AlaskaMagnum » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:34 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:
AlaskaMagnum wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:Topical application doesn't mean free from side effects. It's your dog, if you want to experiment on them, go for it.


Permethrins are a derivative of the chrysanthemum. Mammals have two or three metabolic pathways to break them down. Insects don't. It's topical NOEL is over 5mg/kg. The LD50 is over 4000 mg/kg and that's an oral dose. For a reference, that would be about a teaspoon of it for every two pounds of bodyweight.

When I go to Asia I soak my clothes in it because I feel it is safer than quinone pills for malaria. I have advanced degrees in toxicology.


Tell that to the dogs with contact dermatitis.

There's a reason you soak your clothes and not your skin...



Yeah, cause your clothes don't contact your skin....

What do you think they dip cattle and sheep in?
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby Stretch » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:06 pm

AlaskaMagnum; I was thinking the same thing.
I have an ear tag on my 13lb patterdale and he’s had one on since he was 7 months old. Boy I hope he survives he 8 years old now. Lmao
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby AlaskaMagnum » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:48 pm

Stretch wrote:AlaskaMagnum; I was thinking the same thing.
I have an ear tag on my 13lb patterdale and he’s had one on since he was 7 months old. Boy I hope he survives he 8 years old now. Lmao


No doubt there are better products out there, and my new puppy is and will stay on the new pills, BUT I'm a science guy and the fact is, permethrins (synthetic pyrethrins) are not very toxic to mammals. We evolved with them and metabolise them very efficiently.
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Re: Livestock insecticide tags?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:46 am

AlaskaMagnum wrote:
Stretch wrote:AlaskaMagnum; I was thinking the same thing.
I have an ear tag on my 13lb patterdale and he’s had one on since he was 7 months old. Boy I hope he survives he 8 years old now. Lmao


No doubt there are better products out there, and my new puppy is and will stay on the new pills, BUT I'm a science guy and the fact is, permethrins (synthetic pyrethrins) are not very toxic to mammals. We evolved with them and metabolise them very efficiently.


And yet in practice I see about one pet a month react poorly to our generic advantix product, and have had only one reaction in 3 years to the isoxazolines (Nexgard, Simparica, Bravecto) as we carry all three. Thousands of doses in a 4 doctor practice and only ONE reaction. The difference in efficacy, the speed of tick kill, and the rapidly increasing risk of tick borne diseases make the difference between the two products astronomical.

Its your dog... and remember, it's not ONLY the drug reactions that you are risking... its the risk of tick borne disease.

We once thought pyrethrins were great because they were the best available at the time. They are significantly less effective than newer products now, and in my opinion obsolete technology. We only carry the generic advantix product because it's better than nothing in our area, but I often wish it wasn't an option.
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